What are your thoughts on Bitcoin losing the Darknet \ stacker news ~bitcoin

What are your thoughts on Bitcoin losing the Darknet

2820 sats \ 151 comments \ @RedRadish688 15 Jun bitcoin

As can be seen by e.g. visiting dread, the darknets have switched mostly to monero for payments. Of the 6 markets advertised at the time of this writing, 5 are xmr only and one is xmr / btc.

The community seems to be split about this issue. Some people view it as a negative sign that bitcoin is failing in its original promise of being a censorship resistant payment method, while others argue it is positive, as the dissociation from shady activities leads to more social acceptance and institutional adoption.

If you view this as a negative, do you think it is an issue that will resolve itself over time with the current privacy developments, e.g. lightning, ecash or do you think it is an issue that requires more attention?

Positive25.0%

Negative (more attention needed)30.0%

Negative (will resolve itself)37.5%

Other (Post in comments)7.5%

40 votes \ poll ended

view all related items

417 sats \ 31 replies \ @joda 15 Jun

This is one potential use for ecash, once it is developed a bit more.

There's no surprise markets don't want to use the most open, visible, and tracked digital currency (BTC). Monero is THE privacy currency. It's drawback is being slightly harder to use, but not substantially so.

If lightning were used, governments would be going after LSPs and wallets even more than they are now.

22 sats \ 25 replies \ @tomlaies 15 Jun

Lightning can do literally everything that monero can - but is cheaper and faster.

211 sats \ 21 replies \ @ek 15 Jun freebie

Three questions:

Is lightning as private as monero?
Does monero require inbound or outbound liquidity?
What is easier: self-custody of monero or being self-custodial on lightning?

Would also be interested in @DarthCoin's answers.

101 sats \ 0 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 15 Jun

It depends. Could be more, could be less. At least in LN tx are only recorded as forwards in the forwarding peers, and the initiator and receiver of the transaction as payments. Blockchain is for eternity.
No, L1 blockchains only require an unfunded address to receive payments.
Equivalent, both require running a full node software. Bitcoin is negligibly more expensive to run given its older, larger chain.

100 sats \ 18 replies \ @DarthCoin 15 Jun

I am tired of these useless debates comparing a shitcoin with Bitcoin. You want to do shitcoining? GFY

34 sats \ 4 replies \ @ek 15 Jun freebie

https://m.stacker.news/35454

GFY = Good For You?

27 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 15 Jun

Go full YOLO

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 16 Jun

go fuck yourself

110 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 16 Jun freebie

Do you have a guide for that?

210 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 16 Jun

This guide is only for monero shills... Are you a monero shill?

https://i.postimg.cc/G3PrCpr1/your-mom-plan-vacation.jpg

reply on another page

11 sats \ 5 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 15 Jun

Let’s discuss protocols, not coin flavors. Yea, monero is a shitcoin — however: if your life depended on the privacy of a monero payment vs the privacy of a lightning payment, which are you picking?

Should Bitcoin development be trying to make coins more fungible (ala MW)? Should it be introducing graph obfuscation features like decoy ring sig txs and zkproofs?

These are things that shitcoins can experiment with no risk to BTC. When should BTC adopt privacy preserving protocols?

143 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 15 Jun

If is a shitcoin, there's NO DEBATE, no further discussions. Are meaningless. Case closed.

33 sats \ 2 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 15 Jun

Protocols not coins. Should Bitcoin implement privacy protocols?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @joda 15 Jun

Ecash is VERY private...

It's just custodial with unproven reserves.

view replies

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0268c1d74a 17 Jun

My God is the only real God and i will obey and never question anything.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 16 Jun

Lol. A few sats for staying on message Darth. You are consistent AF.

132 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 16 Jun

Consistency is all that matter. Otherwise is just bargaining with yourself and you will never reach the goal.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 16 Jun

That makes a lot of ~~sense~~ sats to me. While I do not agree with everything you say, I do acknowledge that you are a man of principle and conviction. Which I do respect.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0268c1d74a 17 Jun

he is a religious moron, some people say.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @guts 16 Jun

Lighting is shitcoining with extra steps.

110 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 16 Jun freebie

LOL another shitcoiner...

https://i.postimg.cc/yYDBy2rN/darth-toxicity.jpg

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @joda 16 Jun

Custodial lightning could be viewed that way. But self-custodial lightning IS Bitcoin.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun freebie

Lightning receiver privacy is bad and amount privacy is not guaranteed from larger nodes. Sender privacy is strong. Lightning is theoretically nice though because it has no public blockchain. Too bad those privacy benefits are discarded with the way vast majority use it (Look at how we are zapping on StackerNews)
No
Self-custody on Monero and it's not even close

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @beorange 16 Jun

Lightning can do literally everything that monero can

Unfortunately it cannot (at the present time at least). It is something I've been arguing that needs to be addressed so Bitcoin can achieve all properties of money.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @joda 15 Jun

With AML sanctions coming after it, lightning wallets shutting down or implementing KYC, I don't think so. I think lightning CAN be quite private, but it's more difficult than Monero.

I am really not at all an apologist for Monero, but to deny that the market has spoken is patently absurd. It's literally the point of this poll.

Shitcoins are just R&D for Bitcoin. We're getting BitVM now, which wouldn't have happened if Ethereum didn't exist.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun freebie

No it can't. It has a huge UX problem to use without custodians and/or permission, with bad receiver privacy and lackluster amount privacy from larger nodes. And if you fix UX problem with custodians or LSPs (moot point though) you lose the few privacy benefits you had with it.

But yea Lightning is cheaper and faster.

101 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 15 Jun

ok another moneroboy... that doesn't know shit how to use LN.

141 sats \ 3 replies \ @joda 15 Jun

Not at all, just saying it makes sense. Self-custodial lightning is harder than monero. At least, in the past it has been. It's pretty close now with Mutiny and Zeus.

But the market is dictated by the players, and for now at least, they want monero.

My guess is markets will skip right past lightning and use ecash.

100 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 15 Jun

My guess is markets will skip right past lightning and use ecash.

nonsense. ecash depends on LN. Otherwise is just a scam.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun

Not really. There is no technical reason why ecash mints can only accept lightning. They can accept on-chain Bitcoin or even other crypto. It's just an IOU vending machine. Deposit, confirm deposit, spit out tokens.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @joda 15 Jun

Of course, but I mean they will give buyers their own ecash wallets and the market will run a mint.

It's just conjecture, but I don't see them just using standard lightning. Then every wallet operator is on the hook for laundering or facilitating illicit activity.

162 sats \ 8 replies \ @tomlaies 15 Jun

Negative, very negative.

Lightning can do everything these shitcoins can but better
Bitcoin should be the ultimate freedom money and used everywhere where p2p digital payments can't be controlled by the state. Black markets being #1 in this regard
The reason we are behind is because shitcoiners are/were on a massive coordinated propaganda campaign to get this market. And Bitcoiners didn't care about black markets: we were thinking about macro socioeconomical issues and structures instead. We need to do more ground work in the real world.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun

No it can't. Lightning has a huge UX problem to use without custodians and/or permission, with bad receiver privacy and lackluster amount privacy from larger nodes. And if you fix the UX problem with custodians or LSPs you lose any privacy benefits you had with it.

Black markets AKA free markets are highly adversarial environs and the proving grounds (Bitcoins origins). The only places that don't require permission for your transactions are outside white markets. Bitcoins entire value prop rests on that. That's why it's a huge fucking deal.

https://github.com/libbitcoin/libbitcoin-system/wiki/Permissionless-Principle

10 sats \ 6 replies \ @032d74705c 16 Jun freebie

https://abytesjourney.com/lightning-privacy/

Lightning is a joke. Wake up

210 sats \ 2 replies \ @fopstronaut 15 Jun

The community seems to be split about this issue. Some people view it as a negative sign that bitcoin is failing in its original promise of being a censorship resistant payment method,

Is bitcoin really not keeping its promise? It's still censorship-resistant. The only reason it's not being used in darknet markets is because it's not completely anonymous, just pseudonymous. There are ways to increase privacy on the blockchain, but they're not as great as having built-in anonymity. Lightning could help bring back some of that business as it grows, but setting up and managing channels is a bit trickier than just sending money to addresses.

111 sats \ 0 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 15 Jun

Is bitcoin really not keeping its promise? It's still censorship-resistant. The only reason it's not being used in darknet markets is because it's not completely anonymous, just pseudonymous.

Well the question is always two which degree censorship resistance is possible without privacy. It can be possible to a degree, but if e.g. a powerful enough government puts you on a sanction lists it could be quite hard to pay anywhere with your coins.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @032d74705c 16 Jun freebie

https://abytesjourney.com/lightning-privacy/

133 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 15 Jun

I think the lack of acceptance to lightning by crypto in general is the problem. “Privacy coin” communities like to say Bitcoin is too easily traced and expensive to use. Some might agree, while others say that doing this is the true cost of bitcoin.

Generally, onchain TX for darknet markets requires no-KYC BTC and coinjoins which will cost more and require users to know how to control each UTXO.

Unannounced LN channels are ideal, but don’t seem to have been given a fair go so far.

101 sats \ 1 reply \ @SpaceHodler 15 Jun

When more people think it's easier to use Bitcoin privately than Monero, the marketplaces will switch to Bitcoin and our beloved money will return to serving this noble mission of freeing the markets and consequently freeing the people.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @032d74705c 16 Jun freebie

It's not about thinking. It's about the actual state and Bitcoin can neither protect your privacy nor be used easily. So feel free to keep believing in it. It doesn't change the fact that Bitcoin is not money.

35 sats \ 4 replies \ @kingzing131 15 Jun

definitely a negative, it just shows btc privacy isn't quite there or not as easy.

101 sats \ 3 replies \ @tomlaies 15 Jun

I honestly don't understand that tho. Opening up a Lightning wallet or at least a custodial one or a Phoenix wallet is just as easy as using shitcoins.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @joda 15 Jun

Custodial can be rugged, confiscated, sanctioned, KYC-ed, etc.

Monero you at least own your own coins.

Mutiny and Zeus are great options, but I don't think marketplaces want to hang their future on a couple or a few wallets remaining available in the United States. Mutiny devs already sound a bit scared (as they should).

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun

Phoenix is not private...

"The current version of Phoenix offers no advantage regarding privacy over existing, hosted, custodial wallets. We (ACINQ) know the final destination and amount of payments."

https://phoenix.acinq.co/faq#how-private-are-my-payments-on-phoenix https://phoenix.acinq.co/privacy

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @032d74705c 16 Jun freebie

Are you serious? :D I think you don't understand anything about privacy

13 sats \ 1 reply \ @SatsMate 15 Jun

I think it is negative and more attention is needed. I do think ecash and other privacy solutions on layer 2 will help, but in the end, I think Bitcoin has a 5/10 for privacy and Monero is a 9/10. Obviously, all of Monero's other qualities are garbage haha.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @032d74705c 16 Jun freebie

Tell me about the other "garbage" qualities? We will see how much you know about it with doing this kind of statement.

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @030a29f333 15 Jun

Darknet market can continue to use xmr and have fun staying poor. Won't affect my life in the slightest.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @beorange 16 Jun

it is not about being poor or rich. It is about being a good mean of exchange. Bitcoin is missing one property, I believe soon it will get there.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun freebie

You'll be poor too when your coin is taxed to oblivion or thrown in a cage and confiscated because of a mistake you made years ago

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @032d74705c 16 Jun freebie

If it's about being rich or poor. Have fun being a slave.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 15 Jun

Bitcoin is for anyone not for everyone, and people are free where to use it and if they don't use it in the darknet it'll be used in other direction

31 sats \ 4 replies \ @freetx 15 Jun

Frankly, it would make more sense to use Liquid-BTC rather than Monero.

Wallets like AQUA allow you to easily swap BTC/L-BTC and L-BTC has all the confidential privacy protection of monero without any of the shitcoin risk.

131 sats \ 2 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 15 Jun

Does liquid also obfuscate the source and destination addresses in order to prevent tracing? I thought it just obfuscates the amounts and type of asset used.

15 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT 15 Jun

Liquid is still linked via addresses. Swapping between liquid and lightning would be ideal if liquid had more users.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @joda 15 Jun

Yeah they already have so few users, just imagine when their distributed federation gets hit with orders to blacklist addresses or reveal peg-outs. Who knows how many of the federation entities are in a country that mandates compliance with these orders?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun

Liquid doesn't hide receiver or sender like Monero

It also has like no anonymity set because no one uses it

147 sats \ 14 replies \ @DarthCoin 15 Jun freebie

99% of those markets are created and controlled by the gov agencies using the shitcoin monero (morons). Instead of using those crap markets, people should just run a nostr market with BTC. I don't give a damn shit about darknet markets.

166 sats \ 0 replies \ @joda 15 Jun

Nostr has a problem with aggregating honest reputation without a centralized service keeping track of all users and transactions. It's costless to make a "seller" and give yourself reviews from 1000 "buyers". Trust rings don't really work because you don't know any of the other buyers (and you can't, because you're all purchasing illicit goods).

21 sats \ 5 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 15 Jun

99% of those markets are created and controlled by the gov agencies using the shitcoin monero (morons).

I am not sure if you really believe this or are just pissed off by people using monero.

The idea of a nostr market sounds promising though. Do you know of any market built on nostr?

150 sats \ 4 replies \ @DarthCoin 15 Jun freebie

Each seller can build his own stall market and publish it over nostr. No need for tor or any other crap, just wss relays (even private) Nostr markets are Silk Roads on steroids. https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/lnbits-nostr-market

100 sats \ 2 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 15 Jun

Interesting article, thanks for sharing.

So in your view most of the relevant dark market activity will move to nostr over time.

I definitely see the advantages, as each stall market would have to be taken down separately. Also there are no rug pull risks as with the centralized markets.

Curious to see how it plays out.

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 17 Jun freebie

Hint: did you know that you can have a totally private LN ring, opening Simple taproot channels between participants? To transact in private between well known peers, it is NOT necessary to open public channels. Once the channels are depleted, you can close them and open new fresh ones. Is recommended to open big channels, to cover all your spending during x time you calculate, so you will not have to pay opening/closing fees.

But is working totally fine, without any trace in the public.

Central LN node for the nostr market, running a simple LND node in neutrino mode (without the need of full BTC Core sync), totally private. The market clients, using Zeus, will open each one a private STC towards your nostr market node, with the amount they calculate will spend in x time. This channel opening will appear on the blockchain as a regular 2of2 multisig.

When you decide to wipe all and start over, just start new LN nodeID and start fresh, leaving no trace behind.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @RedRadish688 OP 17 Jun

Not sure I understand, so each buyer would open a channel directly with the merchant node? When the channels are depleted and closed isn't it traceable onchain that the funds moved from each buyer to the merchant? Especially if the merchant merges utxos of different channels?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun

Why are you such a dumby

You need to run it over Tor/I2P/Mixnets or you won't be anonymous. Your IP address is exposed. VPNs won't really cut it for highly adversarial things like DNMs. Even Tor isn't completely adequate.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun

But if Bitcoin was still loved by darknet markets it would be your most favorite thing and you would talk about that every chance you got.

You're a dishonest and unserious person

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun

99% of Bitcoins price is controlled by central exchanges and Tether. I can make up shit too. Except I'm not actually.

Of course you don't because you're a dweeb

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @032d74705c 15 Jun freebie

"I never "leave" Bitcoin, always staying on the same path, never shitcoining. Shitcoining it's a sin."

People with this mindset will never change anything to the positive. It's a religious way of thinking. You are not solving any problem, because you found something that gives you a meaning to your life. If the lack of privacy and government control is the biggest threat to our freedom, then bitcoin is not the solution. You know it and you mislead all the people here. It's a shame. Bitcoin is not freedom money. Bitcoin is traceable money. So it can bring people into big trouble. You are hiding yourself in the middle of nowhere, so you are not afraid of being traced. Because you will never raise your voice in the public. You are not more then a troll. PRIVACY IS A HUMAN RIGHT! So shut the f*** up and shame on you. For the rest: Educate yourself. Use privacy tools. It's the biggest weapon to fight back.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @032d74705c 15 Jun freebie

Hihihi. Always funny how @DarthCoin is triggered by Monero. And the only thing he can say about it is ... nonsense. If money works within this framework, it has proven it's importance for our freedom. Bitcoin is not money. Money is always fundamentally anonymous. You seem to me like you're a the only one who was created by the gov.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Akg10s33 15 Jun

I think it is a topic that needs more attention... personally I am starting in the world of crypto and in SN... and what prompted me to invest and learn about this world of Bitcoin is its strength as an asset and as a Through the years and periods it continues to advance, leaving behind any prediction that may indicate that it is useless to make your investment in an asset like this... but it is worth it... it only requires time and the desire to learn... because although many are in against this is the future now!!

31 sats \ 4 replies \ @standard_sats 15 Jun freebie

It didn't loose darknet. I've heard rumors some vendors actively using Lightning channels.

110 sats \ 2 replies \ @tomlaies 15 Jun

You know you can just open up tor browser and proof that comment wrong in 2 minutes, right? The darkweb has shifted to cash by mail and shitcoins. I don't like that either but it's the unfortunate truth

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @standard_sats 15 Jun

Sure. This is why such information was rather surprising to know.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @032d74705c 16 Jun freebie

If these "shitcoins" protect your privacy better then Bitcoin I would be a little more skeptical about the real use of Bitcoin as money. And lightning is far away from being private. https://abytesjourney.com/lightning-privacy/

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun

That's hilarious. No they're not.

1313 sats \ 50 replies \ @anon 15 Jun

these comments prove toxic bitcoin maxi's are inbred echo-chamber retards

sour grapes.

We see everything from: "LN can and does do everything Monero does" to "Liquid can do everything Monero does", to "ecash will solve this". (All custodial, third party, legally liable and poison-able by the way.) No one has even offered the latest "Silent Payments" meme as of this writing. Because you are cuckolds.

Where the dark market goes, everything else follows. No one else has as much skin in the game or proof of work. (remember don't trust, verify ? You don't because all the solutions presented here are "trust L2's")

Bitcoin started as dark money. Took off as black market money and has no use outside of black market money. Zero. zilch. nada.

Everyone else, the world at large, the next generation, our inheritors, just want apple pay.

The worst take is DarthCoin's: "BE A DEV!". Some of us have more interesting things do then fuck around with config files and run and maintain a bitcoin node, a lightning node, general server infra, LN liquidity channels (properly and to not lose funds), LNbits in a secure and up to date way and all the other shit needed just to have a shitty version of Monero privacy. You people are incredibly out of touch religious fanatics.

Where will you massive cunts be when the first ecash mint rugpulls or an LSP gets a warrant ? You will be in your early bag citadels shaking back and forth like some religious school student whispering quotes from Saylor about hornets, while real people suffer.

Not only is Bitcoin not cypherpunk anymore, it's dumb. Its base are now dumb sophists, who were once made up of thinkers. Its Dev's are dumb yes-men whores for VC. And it's influencoors are low IQ conformist who literally fellate dictators. Without knee pads.

Even this forum recently changed its monetary behavior based on an arrest for a completely different unrelated open source project that could have been prevented by embracing Monero. Monero focuses on doing one thing and one thing only, being money.

It's as though we exist in a mafia run city and Bitcoiner's are going around passing out "Back the Blue" stickers and flags, or in a jungle and actively persue the evolutionary dead end of species wide albinism.

We are rapidly approaching an inflection point where anything not accepting, using or endorsing Monero and the best of privacy measures will be seen as a Honeypot and retroactive risk.

You ideological retards don't know anything outside your stupid church. You just call everything else a shitcoin reflexively, and when reality punches you in the face many many people will laugh.

why are you hitting yourself

why are you hitting yourself !

40 sats \ 2 replies \ @joda 15 Jun

I really wish you could just be straightforward and tell us what's on your mind. Really, don't hold back.

Every crypto is like that-- every forum and sub is just an echo-chamber of moon-sooners claiming to be better than Bitcoin. Seriously, Nano and BCH and BSV think they're gonna replace Bitcoin.

The market has spoken. Bitcoin won. Yeah it's not great currency, but apparently the world wants a store of value and credit cards are good enough for payments.

Silent payments will be great, sure, but it's been at least a couple years and we don't have them yet. I believe there is also a liveness requirement, which can be burdensome and will probably end up requiring some sort of trusted provider.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @guts 17 Jun

Blockstream Bitcoin won, not Satoshi's Bitcoin

106 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun freebie

The darknet markets have spoken. Monero is winning.

All white market transactions are permissioned. Bitcoins entire value prop rests on being permissionless. Regulators can impose any arbitrary restriction they want on white markets up to, and including, banning Bitcoin.

Silent Payments on Bitcoin is an improvement but the concept itself is old and not that great in the grand scheme of privacy tech especially when used on a transparent chain. Counter party can still naively determine what address their money went to and follow it from there. Even third parties can figure it out if they get their hands on any combination of time, amount, sender address.

1 sat \ 44 replies \ @ek 15 Jun freebie

I unfortunately zapped this comment before I read this:

Not only is Bitcoin not cypherpunk anymore, it's dumb.

And especially before I read this:

Even this forum recently changed its monetary behavior based on an arrest for a completely different unrelated open source project that could have been prevented by embracing Monero.

Could SN work (non-custodially as planned for the near future) without instant payments with low fees? Do regulators care about which coin is used or is it about money transmission? Where is SN on monero? Or any company building on top of monero? When will monero stop being a niche currency with real adoption outside of darknet markets?

Is store of value important for sound money? Is monero a better store of value than bitcoin?

https://m.stacker.news/35458

Is monero better at separating money and state than bitcoin? Is monero even about that or just about hiding yourself forever from the state?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @guts 17 Jun

Well said 👏

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @032d74705c 16 Jun freebie

Word.

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @lightcoin 16 Jun freebie

I think it is a negative, if only because it suggests that "the market" has decided bitcoin isn't private enough for mission-critical transactions. If we want bitcoin to be the best electronic cash, it should have sufficiently strong privacy that the market does not near-universally consider an alternative as superior on that dimension.

I doubt ecash is a solution, because if any mint were to attract DNMs as users the mint operator would most likely be shut down.

Lightning is also far from being private enough to serve as an effective replacement for Monero. It might be too strong to say LN will "never" be as private but it does seem to me like there are fundamental technical challenges that would prevent LN from being as private.

I think the best solution would be to improve base layer privacy of bitcoin, leap-frog Monero's (now outdated) privacy tech and go straight for zk-SNARK-based private transactions a la Zerocash. Or we could enable validity proof verification on bitcoin, then developers can experiment with privacy protocols on L2 and the market will pick the one that works the best.

2 sats \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun

Monero actually has pretty damn strong amount privacy (perfectly hiding so quantum proof via pedersen commmitments) and receiver privacy (receivers can potentially be any user that has ever existed because of stealth addresses)

As for sender-privacy ring signatures being outdated, Full-Chain Membership Proofs to solve that are already in progress

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Taurus 16 Jun

I don’t care, they can literally use Fluppydoopy coin if they want ;) Sorry There is no second best

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @guts 16 Jun

There is nothing wrong with Monero.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @joda 16 Jun

Well the sync time is extremely long and the larger the Blockchain gets, the longer it takes. It's the price of Layer 1 privacy, but it's more annoying than waiting 10 minutes for a Bitcoin confirmation.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @guts 17 Jun

I prefer my privacy for just 10 minutes. If you use it regularly the sync is fast.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @yo2xncv0 17 Jun

open every once in awhile if you don't use it often
use a wallet with background sync (Cake and Anonero have this)
run your own Monero LWS

Better solutions for syncing coming down the road with Seraphis/FCMP++

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @032d74705c 16 Jun

Okay if you don't use your wallet for a year that can happen after you open your wallet. But sync time is pretty fine if you use it on a daily or weekly base.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jakoyoh629 15 Jun

It's basically a cat and mouse game.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Coinsreporter 15 Jun

I've never experienced that darkened can cause any positivity. Bitcoin isn't made for darknet markets, nor it is made to be controlled by state. It's for people, for freedom of money, for their sovereignty.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @032d74705c 16 Jun freebie

It means bypassing the state. Your Bitcoin Standard will end in slavery just like the current monetary system. Have fun staying a slave

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @7776c32d4b 16 Jun freebie

I think this will be solved by something like lightning except good. For now it's not really a problem, people can just use Monero when they need to

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @NaOD 16 Jun outlawed

stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 15 Jun outlawed

stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.