What would have to happen for you to LEAVE your home country? \ stacker news ~earth

What would have to happen for you to LEAVE your home country?

6483 sats \ 73 comments \ @birdeye21 29 Dec 2023 earth

In the event that you need to retreat to safety with your family and your bitcoin, what event is likely taking place within your country to prompt such action?

When do you say enough is enough?

It seems that many in the US would never give up their homeland as it's "the greatest country on earth." Many in the US cling to the notion that its economic and political power is infinite and everlasting. But if there's anything to take away from being involved in the markets, it's that risk is highest when things feel the most comfortable. And on the flip side of things, many "lesser-off" countries are rising in prosperity while the US declines.

The day that the US (or X country) implements a social-credit system is likely the final straw for some.

Is that the case for you?

Or does something happen earlier that would drive you out before the CBDC dystopia arrives? Later??

And how do you ensure that you aren't jumping from one authoritarian hellscape to another? Is there a realistic scenario in which encroaching CBDC enslavement doesn't affect a particular region of the world?

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2545 sats \ 7 replies \ @kepford 29 Dec 2023

This is a great question. I have been rethinking this myself and talking to my wife about it. I think it is one we could also apply to states in the US or even cities worldwide. Leaving a country is a much bigger change and requires more planning. I have put some thought into this question on the US state level. For me, and I think a lot of people to avoid making an emotion based decision you need to think about this and write it down before the shit hits the fan or even before it gets close. I firmly believe after talking to many people that moved during and after Covid that it was mostly emotion based. I'm not saying they made a mistake but rather that it wasn't very rational.

Here me on this. Why I say it wasn't rational is because of how they explain it. They will state false data about metrics in different places. They will exaggerate how bad it was vs how good it is where they have moved. They seem blind to the same problems in the new place. For many of these people the move was probably a good one but would have been better if they had thought it through earlier, did more research, and compared more options.

As far as CBDC enslavement, the more I think about CBDCs the less I think it will be a drastic change for the worse. It will be worse for sure but we already have a CBDC lite in most of the western world. The banking system as well as the credit card systems are all digital and controlled by the state already. They can and are moving toward stronger and stronger censorship of transactions. The CBDC would make it easier and faster for money to be distributed as well as censorship.

I think banks will push back on complete centralization. If you believe that the banks are the true power rather than the State then it seems less likely that the CBDC will be completely centralized.

As far as a social credit system. We already have that but it is more capitalist. Its called your credit score. Try to rent an apartment without a credit check. I needed one to get service with my ISP. We already have it, they just haven't tightened it as they have in China. In my view most Americans are just asleep. Even most bitcoiners. We always have a worse place to live to use as cope for our own situation. I get this every time I visit Texas or the south. People say, how can you live in California. They seem to ignore the state of their own localities and how they are just 5 to 10 years behind states like NY and CA. They are complacent. These people talk like California is run by the CCP. Its more like a EU state in reality. That's bad enough, don't get me wrong but there are tradeoffs.

The question is, what freedom matters most to you? What government is gonna be the least bad to deal with. It can vary widely within a state as well. I don't live in a big city or even a city. In some ways I have more freedom than the average person that lives in Austin, Texas for example.

It seems like you usually see two extremes. The first being I gotta get out because this is a hell hole. The person magnifies what they see on the news or web. Many things that do not even affect them. They do not take steps within their power to enhance their freedom where they are. They act like all they need to do is move. They take their issues with them.

The other extreme are the cope people. Those that don't want to do anything hard. Those that don't want to feel like they need to take action.

Just my two sats.

201 sats \ 2 replies \ @davidw 29 Dec 2023

I firmly believe after talking to many people that moved during and after Covid that it was mostly emotion based. I'm not saying they made a mistake but rather that it wasn't very rational.

A big decision like this is precisely that, emotional. It's probably fair to say many people made a move and tried to buy property from afar, without really knowing what they were getting into. Without having ever visited that country before and perhaps then decided to return. That sort of thing happens all the time and can be avoided. But it's not irrational or wrong per se, I don't believe people should be afraid of taking such risks. Just like never ever leaving your country of birth is not necessarily wrong either.

Having made a similar move, I am emotionally levels above where I was in my home country. It's so rewarding and fulfilling for you to feel like you have found a place you can call home. A place you recognise and one that welcomes you. In my case, the rational thing WAS to move. Sometimes you can't improve your local environment. It depends on the individual. Starting something new is exciting, daunting and in some ways destructive.

The point is, only you know when it's time. And categorising people into one of 2 extremes is not useful. Everyone's situation is different. The grass IS always greener, but sometimes it doesn't just depend on you watering it.

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 29 Dec 2023

You make some fair points. Only calling what I've seen personally and many people are completely programmed by their chosen media outlet. Like I said, I think those I know made the right choice but their reasoning has major flaws. They are following the influencers. They aren't thinking.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Caleb 2 Jan

Technically, all decisions are emotional. People with brain damage that limits their emotions are incredibly indecisive. Even if you’re trying to be really logical and rational, there’s an emotion telling you if you’re doing a good job at it.

102 sats \ 3 replies \ @Eobard 29 Dec 2023

deleted by author

336 sats \ 1 reply \ @kepford 29 Dec 2023

This is the worst option. It doesn't have to be war and we should never call for it. Peaceful divorce should be the goal. If the feds attack so be it but war makes losers of us all.

I really don't think the world in general would support federal forces attacking other Americans over peaceful divorce. If the feds tried this I suspect it would not end well for everyone. In my view calling for civil war is playing into the feds hands. Its the way they stop the discussion.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @itsrealfake 29 Dec 2023

have a read of the Federalist Papers to get a sense of how tremendously disinterested they were in having anything other than a cohesive union on the continent.

can you imagine if California was suddenly divorced from the federal system, and simultaneously very pleased to outsource their policing and monetary policy to the Chinese ? next thing you know, they're letting the Chinese military build an air base and a naval base and a troop Baracks, and then suddenly poof... Nevada is Chinese territory.

my point is: civil war might be better than dissolution of the union.

best bet is, and I've come full circle on this as I've moved through the thinking on it, voting ourselves out of this bullshit & into a tolerable relationship with the other states.

276 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 30 Dec 2023

Civil War is useless if you don't have consensus how to build a better system. And if you would have consensus, you wouldn't really need "all-out civil war"

851 sats \ 0 replies \ @oliverweiss 29 Dec 2023

I am asking myself the opposite: why don’t people leave their home countries? What makes them so strongly bound to the homeland? Family? Kind of nationalism? Job? I have lived in maybe five, six EU countries so far (lived in Japan for a short period of time too), every time I was looking for a job, I was searching in the whole Europe, and there are just so many jobs everywhere, all my kids were born in a different country… borders make no sense to me, nationalism is a ridiculous concept to me, and home is everywhere I make it, with wife and kids.

704 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 29 Dec 2023

Great question. I was talking about this with a friend. She was affected intimately by the riots in 2020 and described this as a maddening thought-loop: should we abandon ship, and let all our shit get destroyed, or should we stick it out in hopes that conditions improve?

So hard to know when it's time. Often obvious in retrospect, but in the moment it's impossible.

And how do you ensure that you aren't jumping from one authoritarian hellscape to another? Is there a realistic scenario in which encroaching CBDC enslavement doesn't affect a particular region of the world?

That's the rub, right there.

581 sats \ 1 reply \ @Fabs 29 Dec 2023

War, and since I'm European, I wouldn't be surprised if I'm having to leave (or at least plan on leaving) within the next 10 years.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @1fatmess 29 Dec 2023 freebie

Yep. Far too many Americans talking about theoretical nonsensical ideas of freedom versus real denial of freedom elsewhere.

526 sats \ 1 reply \ @Natalia 29 Dec 2023 freebie

already left! and can't be happier about it - I get to experience the world on my own terms, why stuck there if you are not happy? you only live once:)!

And how do you ensure that you aren't jumping from one authoritarian hellscape to another? Is there a realistic scenario in which encroaching CBDC enslavement doesn't affect a particular region of the world?

Ideally, have 1-2 places in hand, and NEVER overdepend on anywhere; if you sense it's getting unpleasant, then it is time to go - the world is your oyster! and one of the hacks I've learned is being a guest in other countries can avoid many annoyances that locals get stuck in 👀

112 sats \ 0 replies \ @davidw 29 Dec 2023

Really happy it's worked out for you. Couldn't agree more 👊

234 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 29 Dec 2023

Agree that a lot of people recently have or are gearing up to make illogical emotional decisions.

Not everyone in the USA that lives in "Blue"/democratic area are blind to their issues. All areas have many different pros and cons. One big pro of some "Blue"/democratic areas is they sometimes have much higher incomes and also often have beautiful safe suburbs with great schools. I live in an area like this and have experienced little to no downsides the last several years. Now if I lived in the center of our "downtown" then the story would be very different.

Even single metro areas can be very diverse and have different tradeoffs. One town might have a de facto ban on guns, while one town over loves guns and issues concealed carry permits to anyone with a pulse (real example from somewhere I've lived). When you paint entire people and places with a broad brush you're inevitably oversimplifying at best, if not explicitly incorrect at worst.

The beauty of the US is its almost like a group of different countries smashed together. US States often outright refuse to enforce federal laws on a variety of issues, such as guns, drugs, assisted suicide, environmental regulations, etc. So even if the USA federal government tried to force a CBDC and ban self custody Bitcoin you'd probably see surprisingly minimal impact in many states. But that is my family's agreed red line to move to Texas or Florida, the federal government banning self custody bitcoin and the state where we live agreeing to enforce such a law. Without local law enforcement cooperation it's toothless.

Everyone is different and has different situations, goals, and values. Don't assume your situation applies to everyone and that people who disagree with you are blind idiots. There are thoughtful people weighing their unique tradeoffs on all sides. Please be respectful of them.

338 sats \ 2 replies \ @blocktock 29 Dec 2023

The biggest risk that many males think will never happen is conscription.

Do you really think when that is announced, you will have time to get your sh*t in order and leave? If this happened in the West, it would come at a time during significant stress on systems and society. Planes would be out of the question. Just have a Plan B, if you don't have have an unlimited affiliation to your country.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @stimmy 29 Dec 2023

Good call - this is an important consideration for declining countries. I've probably escaped this risk, personally, from age and prior military service. But my sons deserve a plan B when they're old enough.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @nkmg1c_ventures 29 Dec 2023

Many places that have destabilized over time have this exact problem, it's brutal

168 sats \ 0 replies \ @0298b5a0cb 29 Dec 2023 freebie

Enough was enough in 2021. Medical tyranny is my line in the sand. Fled Canada for Mexico. I refused to inject questionable, possibly fatal, garbage into my body. For asserting self sovereignty I became second class. The 21st century equivalent to the Jews of Nazi Germany in the 30s.

There are no guarantees in life. Countries, institutions and yes friends and family will stab you in the back in an instant for having unpopular opinions.

410 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 29 Dec 2023

If Trudeau gets re-elected again.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @jeff 29 Dec 2023

He is so done. If he is re-elected, I predict violence.

99 sats \ 0 replies \ @aljaz 29 Dec 2023

first of all waiting for the breaking point to start preparing of it is completely the wrong approach.

you should be planning to leave tomorrow and then hope you never need to. because when you will want to you won't be able to.

i think anyone not implementing at least parts of flag theory in their lives nowadays will be very unpleasantly surprised at some point in the future. At least obtain a residency somewhere else while you still can, have an entity and some assets in different jurisdiction that your government doesn't know about or at least can't touch.

Countries are making it harder and harder to leave, imposing exit taxes and all kinds of oppressive shit on you so you want to spread your risk and have options. But you need infrastructure upfront, specially if you want to be a bit more practical than just hoping that you will be able to do everything with bitcoin.

96 sats \ 2 replies \ @phatom 29 Dec 2023

Too much taxation so I got to move

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Dec 2023

when does it become "too much"?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @phatom 30 Dec 2023

When I can't stand to pay for it

32 sats \ 1 reply \ @1fatmess 29 Dec 2023

Unrealised capital gains tax

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @clr 29 Dec 2023

If you are waiting until it happens and you are KYC'd, then it will be too late.

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @SwearyDoctor 31 Dec 2023

I already did. I found that it didn't really take that much preparation, especially if you're doing it bit by bit and not in one fell swoop; as in, keep your place as a transition place, not take all your stuff, carry stuff you need as you go back and forth a while. Bureaucratically, it was a little bit of work, but also not overwhelming.

Have to say, I moved from Europe to the global south, which makes this cheaper. But I can basically live on cash if I so choose, no card payments needed, there are bitcoin ATMs close by, and plenty of people who would buy some off of me if I chose to sell it to them (which so far I haven't done, but having the option is somewhat important).

What did it for me was frustration and blind rage that the money I leave here goes half to Ukraine, 1/4 to fund the murder of Gaza and the rest to oppress the very places I now move to, and worse, being surrounded by people who think this is all just great.

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @jeff 29 Dec 2023

My wife to agree with me.

Thats it. Thats the only thing keeping us here.

The events that need to happen are already behind us.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Silent_Hodler 30 Dec 2023

I’m in the same boat. Been ready to leave for a year now but she’s the anchor currently.

109 sats \ 1 reply \ @Hermit 29 Dec 2023

Not on the theme, but when you only know 1 thing, that thing is always the absolute best:

You've been using an iphone for the last 10 years. Iphone is the best phone
You only drink IPA beer. IPA is the best beer
You only lived in the US. USA is the best country.

Opinions without knowing the options are completely irrelevant, with the exception of there is no second best.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Dec 2023

All great points. This is why traveling is important for the mind

99 sats \ 1 reply \ @duvel 29 Dec 2023

Great question. For me it would be if

vaccination was mandated, would be punishable by law and you need that to have access to stores like supermarkets
you're not able to sell your house due to insane climate rules
if a government starts to deny you access to your drinkwater supply or limits it for whatever reason
If your country is severely deteriorating: high crime rate, dangerous to be outside, extremely high taxes, agressive and violent racism/wokism
Totalitarian regulation and laws

I get the feeling that the whole EU is something you don't want to be living in in about X years.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Dec 2023

sad but also feels true, the EU needs a real saving grace.

80 sats \ 2 replies \ @chungkingexpress 30 Dec 2023

I already left.

1 sat \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Dec 2023

thoughts so far??

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @chungkingexpress 30 Dec 2023

I am thankful to be out of New Zealand and away from the political shit show that is constant. I am thankful to have optionality. I also am aware of the responsibility of the position I am in.

63 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 29 Dec 2023

A continual degradation of freedoms, wanting to know everything about you, an increase in taxation and a lower quality if life.

The boiling frog analogy is real. When these things degrade slowly it's hard to put that line in the sand.

104 sats \ 2 replies \ @cryotosensei 30 Dec 2023

I’m from Singapore. It’s a tiny island and life can get quite stifling here because we live too close to one another to not compare our achievements. But I can’t fathom leaving it at this season of my life because 1) it’s a safe environment to raise kids, 2) our government is relatively non-corrupted and competent, 3) Singaporeans lack the warmth and gregariousness of people in other nations - but we are generally honest and hardworking people, and 4) I open my mind up to platforms like Stacker News, so at least I get my mental stimulation fix.

I can go on and on with other reasons, but ya I’d rather water my side of the garden heh

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 1 Jan

Had a buddy who lived in Singapore for a while, heard nothing but good things besides how expensive it is lol.

No wrong in standing up for the place you love! Just have to be able to recognize when it no longer is/will be the same place

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cryotosensei 1 Jan

It is expensive. That’s why I hustle here 😆

105 sats \ 0 replies \ @honzabe 31 Dec 2023 freebie

For me, it would take a bit of success. I am now trying to switch my career to something that could be done remotely because I want to move to Spain and their job market is terrible. But other than that, Spain is awesome.

I am from The Czech Republic and I love my country... except for the long dark soul-crushing winters. This affects me a lot. It is a surprisingly big part of quality of life. Spain is much more friendly to things I enjoy the most, like cycling, hot weather, and being outside.

And living in a foreign country for a few years has benefits. I have tried this before. You need to learn a lot of new things and that keeps you sharp and focused - I enjoy that. And somehow, I am not a person with strong roots. I love discovering new places, meeting new people... I could write a book about the advantages of leaving your home country.

I understand that for many people it would take something terrible happening to leave their home country. I just wanted to mention that it has great advantages too. Which does not mean that I do not love my home country, of course.

57 sats \ 1 reply \ @Signal312 30 Dec 2023

Here's an interesting thought about the social credit system in China - it's apparently mainstream media propaganda. That there's nothing like this really going on in China.

More info: #369881

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Dec 2023

thanks for sharing this.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 29 Dec 2023

Vaccine passports.

Already left.

50 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 29 Dec 2023

Complete grid failure, which is not out of the realm of possibility in the way we're going now, but somehow we are holding on, other than that probably civil war. We don't really have the resources to roll out anything on a large scale like a CBDC, I think thats more of a developed word worry

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @benthecarman 29 Dec 2023

Some of the anti bitcoin laws could force me out of the US. A lot of them would make it so I could no longer legally work here

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @antic 29 Dec 2023

Finding the perfect castle and acreage for sale in Scotland.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @libertad2cero 29 Dec 2023

Quick answer: 2030 acceleration

42 sats \ 1 reply \ @0xIlmari 30 Dec 2023

War. Rise of violent crime. Ban of "unhosted" Bitcoin ownership. Tax on unrealised capital gains.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 1 Jan

Many countries are nearly there...

Ban of "unhosted" Bitcoin ownership. Tax on unrealised capital gains.

Ultimately i have faith that regulation like this wont pass worldwide, but it's not surprising in the slightest that it's being proposed already. Would be very very bullish momentum for bitcoin after the short term chaos

42 sats \ 2 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 30 Dec 2023

I'd either need to be financially capable of never needing to work again. Or alternatively have found a job that paid me more than I get paid now, with less responsibility, and ideally the country id move to would have a lower cost of living. Ultimately giving me more expendable cash.

The job ones not going to happen as I've managed to pigeon hole myself into being kinda good at something very very niche. So lottery win is where my hopes and dreams lie.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 1 Jan

Specialty may feel limiting, but can also be liberating! Obviously depends on many factors, but don't think you need to rely on hitting the lottery, whatever metaphorically that is for you!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Public_N_M_E 1 Jan

Couple mil would do probably. Enough to buy a property in a mountainous area. Pay myself a normal living wage. And then just go completely self sufficient and off grid.

Collect my own energy from renewables where I can. Grow my own food. Just strip back down to basics. I reckon a couple mil would enable that.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @030e0dca83 30 Dec 2023

War has already happened

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @guts 30 Dec 2023

The only reason would be my safety because kidnapping or some criminals asking me money to just work. I know people that had to leave México because of this.

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @doubleplusgood23 30 Dec 2023

If my family and friends spontaneously combusted I guess I'd leave for somewhere else.

22 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 29 Dec 2023

It would take a lot. I used to be very open to moving to Canada or a few other places. Covid disqualified many of them in my mind.

I've come to doubt that anywhere is going to overtake middle America from a policy standpoint. However, if I were ever offered a high paying position as Chief Economic Advisor (or something like that) to some tropical island nation, though, I would seriously consider it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Dec 2023

Same, would take a lot for me too. That's an opportunity you'd have to send.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @0207a984de 30 Dec 2023

Rampant crime

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Dec 2023

at what point does it become "rampant"?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0207a984de 30 Dec 2023

When you're no longer shocked that someone is stealing a bunch of stuff from shopping malls and drug stores, because it's so expected now. Or when drug use and violent crimes are near all time highs. It's not a hard line, but that's generally what I look at.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @niftynei 29 Dec 2023

I’d move to Texas ;) 🤠

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 30 Dec 2023

PlebLab will welcome you

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @designsats 29 Dec 2023

you mean to come back and leave again? :D

41 sats \ 2 replies \ @GlobalThreat 30 Dec 2023

my plan in the next 5 years is to buy a 40 ft. sailboat and head south (california) and down into Mexico.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 1 Jan

hell might as well go even further south!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @GlobalThreat 1 Jan

my plan is to go through the panama canal and into the caribbean

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @eduardopro 30 Dec 2023

Easy, this guy -->

https://m.stacker.news/9981

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @birdeye21 OP 1 Jan

genuinely no clue who he is. Who?

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @eduardopro 2 Jan

Hugo Chávez Frías.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @nullama 30 Dec 2023

The world is a big place.

There are many great places around the globe, and the chances that you just were born in the best place for you in particular is quite low.

There are many factors that could make you want to leave the country where you were born.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 OP 1 Jan

Coming to learn of the woes of your home country is similar to learning how your family is also flawed.. Just a part of growing up.