Do Routines Lead to the Quiet Desperation of Life? \ stacker news ~FiresidePhilosophy

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Do Routines Lead to the Quiet Desperation of Life?

1134 sats \ 21 comments \ @stack_harder 2 Jan FiresidePhilosophy

So I stumbled on this video of a 45-year-old depressed man who was lamenting the desperation of life.

to quote him:

In this video, I dive into the quiet desperation that has crept into my life. As a 44-year-old man, my days have become a blur of routine and repetition, each one blending into the next. From starting my day with tea and heading to work, to watching time pass and feeling my plans for the future slipping away, I find myself questioning if this is really living or just existing.

Listening to him, I thought, how much of despair is just about being trapped in a routine? But in reality, humans can't function long-term without some kind of structure, whether you are a farmer or a self-employed CEO. Maybe the issue is having no agency over your time and life because, when you have a family etc, you must go to work and tolerate whatever nonsense goes on in an office these days. Perhpas is the classic midlife crisis.

For me, personally, the kids and life, keep me too occupied to even reflect much on the abyss. I have a struct routine of the school run, the gym, work time, and whatever in the evening. In fact, I have the most strict structure I've ever had. The worst part is the fucking 6am stress of getting everyone up and out the door in 20 minutes, I absolutely despise this part of life, it's unavoidable though (the kids get a 3 month school holiday here though, which is like a big holiday for me too).

A flatmate I used to live with once told me about some relationship she had with a guy and was like 'Every day was something new, it was magical.' And immediately my thought was, that's 100% not sustainable and if it was so magical, why did you split up?

So yeah, what do you guys think? I suspect that this despair creeps in when a person lacks a deeper purpose, or something they have a true connection with. Usually, when you have kids, they form this connection and higher purpose, although, I guess not always, as with this dude.

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144 sats \ 1 reply \ @frostdragon 3 Jan

Great conversation starter. I heard this idea somewhere (maybe Jordan Peterson? maybe he got it from somewhere else? maybe I'm just thinking of The Giver by Lois Lowry?) , that if humans were actually able to achieve some form of [structured] utopia, it would feel like death and the first thing we'd do is destroy it.

I think there has to be balance between structure and, well, chaos and unpredictability. And actually, I think that dichotomy is that the center of a lot of interesting issues.

Conservatism and liberalism, for example, represent the political beliefs of people who prefer the safety of structure vs joy of change and unpredictability. It's deep shame that polarization is pitting us all against each other - the reality is, each needs the other!

I think highly disciplined individuals without kids should make sure to build in some unpredictability if their lives truly follow a strict schedule every hour of every day... But as far as the day to day life of a parent of 3 kids goes... Listen, even if you have a super strict structure, the kids will inherently counterbalance that. If you still feel like you're languishing in your structure, I think that's a symptom of something deeper.

So, all that to say, structure or no structure, you need to seek a deeper meaning either way. My personal belief is that our minds are very finite, and truth lies beyond our ability to comprehend it. That necessitates faith.

I believe that we can discover and establish truth in our minds, and logic and reasoning can be used to bridge the space between truths, and find pathways to discover more truth. BUT: our ability to use logic and reason is limited, and therefore, to truly pursue the truth and meaning of life, we have to use faith to bridge some of those gaps.

Faith is a way to experience and embrace unpredictability and change and uncertainty, without letting go of truth. Faith is a way to reach meaning that structure and logic cannot reach.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 22h

i think as you say, it probably comes down to a sense of purpose. if a person hasn't found some deeper meaning or something that inspires him/her, they start to get depressed

270 sats \ 4 replies \ @freetx 2 Jan

I think its important to take a historical perspective. For 99.99% of history, life was mostly just the same things day in day out: Tend to crops, milk the cow, check on the chickens....

The idea that each day is a magical series of adventures - or moreso - that your life needs some grand overarching "plans for the future" is mostly an illusion that is thoroughly modern in origin.

I'm not denying the malaise of the modern world, but I think 90% of that is caused by the latent atheism prevalent in modern society. It makes sense that the 44-year old man feels its all meaningless if your underlying premise is that life is just a series of stochastic chemical reactions....or whatever Dawkins / Harris promulgates.

74 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 2 Jan

Farming is anything but routine, there's constant adjustment to conditions, the inherent connection to nature, risk mitigation from that entropy, and the ingenuity required to make it work. It's the total opposite of the lifeless drudgery OP describes.

latent atheism

That's true in many cases, but the OP reminds me of a friend that spends 4 hours a day with devotionals and church related stuff trying to overcome his depression, a depression created by a lack of accomplishment which has been a direct result of sticking to a routine for fear of change.

Routine is easy, routine is picking low-hanging fruit to avoid challenge. Routine is an exhausting battle against entropy that cannot be won, making the failure one sought to avoid guaranteed.

21 sats \ 2 replies \ @stack_harder OP 2 Jan

true, I think it's also different that in the past, the farmer (as long as it wasn't on a Soviet collective farm etc), generally speaking, was his own boss, doing his own proof of work. And then the rest were so busy trying to survive, literally, that they wouldn't be sitting around dwelling on shit.

apart from religion, I also think the constant bombardment of people showing their highlight reels on the various socials also makes people think that they are missing out all the time

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @freetx 2 Jan

And then the rest were so busy trying to survive, literally, that they wouldn't be sitting around dwelling on shit.

Yeap. I also think there is something about physical work that is more fulfilling in some way. I had a college summer job for 2 summers working as a car tech (simple stuff like oil changes, brake jobs, etc). In the years after college I was often very nostalgic about that job....

There is a surprising lack of mental stress that comes with such jobs (you're not 'taking work home with you'). You arrive and the car needs a brake job, you leave work and the brake job is done. There is a tangible feeling of accomplishment at the end of your shift....unlike modern office work where projects just seem to drag on and on and you only make incremental, somewhat ephemeral daily progress.

26 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 2 Jan

this is true yeah, keeps life simpler, when I worked with my uncle doing construction it was something similar, physical work and switch off when home, a bit like the movie Office Space lol

14 sats \ 3 replies \ @cryotosensei 3 Jan

My MBTI is ENFP, so my novelty fun-seeking self makes me disdainful of routine. I’m the kind who needs to inject stimulus into my life and shake things up.

This is precisely why I struggle so much with parenthood. It is rewarding n stuff, but it is neither freedom nor fun. I hate that I have to rush back home every day after work. In a child-free era, I could paint the town red 2-3 times a week.

I’m coping better, I guess. In fact, after school dismisses at 12.30pm, I will go straight to sing two hours of karaoke with a friend haha

I’m not sure whether this constitutes a higher purpose, but I am very determined to work on my blog until I can withdraw $150 from Google Adsense. I see it as a manifestation of my identity

24 sats \ 2 replies \ @stack_harder OP 3 Jan

do you think with no kids (ever), you would get bored with painting the town red all the time? friends gradually disappear as they start families etc. i know a few forever single guys this happens to and they express a feeling that everyone is moving on with their life, hitting various milestones and they just remain the same, always looking for someone new to party with

14 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryotosensei 3 Jan

Well there is travel. I am envious of my single friends who can take on overseas trips for work or for leisure at the drop of a hat. I think it depends on how intentional the individual is about crafting his life

Again, I am the kind who needs to satisfy my wanderlust. And travelling with my kids is just different haha

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 3 Jan

travel is a big one yeah, i traveled a ton in my 20s in my single days, or holidays with GFs etc, trips with the boys, great stuff. I do envey those that can hop on on a trip, then again, most of my friends are also chained down lol

but as you say, with kids, for me, travel is just not enjoyable and just stressful, constantly on alert and my wife is a nightmare over-packer. so for me, i prefer little domestic holidays, driving to different cities.

meanwhile, my cousin and her husband travel all the time with their kids, she had a 3-month-old newborn and they were off traveling somewhere. which, personally to me, is my idea of actual hell (and not very responsible IMO), but there you go :)

14 sats \ 3 replies \ @SimpleStacker 2 Jan

I don't feel despair or meaninglessness over my routines.

However, the daily grind of life and the sheer amount of responsibilities, now that I am a middle aged parent, makes me long for more carefree days.

The feeling is especially true when I want to invest in a new skill or dive deep into a hobby. I often find the time is just not there to progress as much as I desire.

But raising my kids and doing my job well is meaningful enough. I think its almost like greed to say that I desire time to do even more

30 sats \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 2 Jan

it's 100% true that with kids and getting older resources get spread thinner, but as you say, it's not a case for despair.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @chaoticalHeavy 2 Jan

I think its almost like greed to say that I desire time to do even more

you may be brainwashed

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 2 Jan

I most assuredly am not.

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 2 Jan

"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results" -- possibly Albert Einstein

I shun routine where ever possible. I find doing the same thing over and over again to be insane.

1 sat \ 0 replies \ @stack_harder OP 3 Jan

a lot of things, like taking a shower, brushing your teeth, eating, eand xercising are by nature the same things over and over and you wouldn't be insane for doing them

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @Aardvark 2 Jan

If the guy pinpointed the problem, why isn't he fixing it?

Because it's not the problem.

11 sats \ 1 reply \ @stack_harder OP 3 Jan

it's probably a money thing, he wants more time to do stuff, see his kids more, but he's at work all the time and has a mortgage etc. fixing this requires either a job with equal hours and more pay, or starting a business, or totally downsizing life. no easy fix to that, hence his despair

32 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 3 Jan

I'm sure it's something, but probably not routine itself.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @chaoticalHeavy 2 Jan

I think routine and habit ¹ allow you to "sleep walk" through life using "muscle memory" to accomplish your physical "tasks".

This allows the mind to rest and play with ideas.

Any routine or habit is easy to break if you decide it's not benefiting you. ↩

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