pull down to refresh

I hadn't heard about Brazil's adventures with central bank digital currencies. But apparently, they're using something called Pix.
Pix is sort of like a publicly run version of Zelle, the payment system operated by a consortium of U.S. private banks. But Pix is much easier to use. And while Zelle is big, Pix has become simply huge, used by a reported 93 percent of Brazilian adults.
Krugman is really salty (I think the last time I read an article he wrote was four or five years ago, but, guy really seems to be down bad these days). In the spirit of objectivity, however, I tried to read the article without remembering his infamous predictions about Bitcoin and the Internet.
What Republicans are really afraid of, with good reason, is the likelihood that many people would prefer a CBDC to private bank accounts, especially but not only stablecoins. And in general any attempt to create a full-fledged CBDC would run into fierce opposition from the financial industry.
Krugman accurately identifies that Republicans do not care about the privacy of US citizens any more than Democrats do. However, I'm curious about his second claim: that the US financial system is the real blocker against adoption of a CBDC.
  • Pix transactions take place almost instantaneously. A Pix payment settles in 3 seconds on average versus 2 days for debit cards and 28 days for credit cards.
  • Transaction costs are low. The authorities have set a requirement on Pix to be free for individuals, and the cost of a payment transaction for firms/merchants is only 0.33 percent of the transaction amount, versus 1.13 percent for debit cards and 2.34 percent for credit cards.
We Bitcoiners have already identified that middlemen are a problem, so that logic checks out. It seems pretty reasonable that Visa, Mastercard, Paypal and Co would not like the idea of a central bank taking all their business. So when I hear politicians talking about laws that ban a CBDC or making sure it will never happen in the US, it makes me feel like we're being played. In this way, "CBDC" is becoming a very useful term for politicians, a lot like "terrorist."
In my mind, what the gov't gets out of a CBDC is surveillance and control. Does the government need to actually run the thing to achieve their ends? Certainly, the payment processors aren't going to stand up for our privacy rights.
One last point to remind myself why I find Krugman so repulsive:
If we ever do create a CBDC, it will surely involve comparable privacy protection. Either you trust in rule of law or you don’t.
159 sats \ 5 replies \ @kepford 12h
In this way, "CBDC" is becoming a very useful term for politicians, a lot like "terrorist."
You nailed it. In the US politicians will campaign against CBDCs but support a stable surveillance coins and then make deals with the companies that run them to get any data they want.
reply
165 sats \ 4 replies \ @siggy47 12h
This. Krugman is right about Trump. Maybe he wouldn't be as irritating if he pretended to be a real economist, rather than a partisan hack making feeble attempts at humor.
reply
43 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford 11h
Yeah, Krugman is a clown though this is entirely by choice. I mean calling him a clown is being kind. He's lying scumbag. I can't think of a better description for someone that has a pattern of using his platform(many years at NYT) to lie over and over again.
reply
38 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 11h
Yes, I think I was in a charitable mood when I replied. Lying scumbag works for me.
reply
36 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 11h
Ha!
reply
Tom Woods and Bob Murphy did a podcast on this for years. It wasn't that he was "wrong". It wasn't just that. That I can understand. Its that he would lie. Claim he held positions he didn't. Contradict himself over and over again. Changing your mind is fine. Pretending you never held a different view is not OK.
reply
166 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 13h
If you want to get pix-pilled: #458011
reply
amazing post!
reply
woah. I missed that one somehow.
reply
In Russia we have the same stuff by central bank, called SBP (fast payments system). Also widely used.
reply
Do you find that people use it to send money to each other very often (not just customers paying merchants/businesses)?
reply
I'd say currently it's the main way for people to send money to each other. Like 95% cases.
You only need the phone #.
Then you can see and confirm the firstname and first-letter-of-a-lastname and select the bank to send to (and the "main" bank, chosen by recipient, is selected by default)
reply
The problem in the end is that the pix belongs to the government, meaning it's not even the bank's. They can control you at will, like they did yesterday with the former president's son.
reply
Yes, this seems like a big problem. however, I'm not sure that our current system with payment processors as intermediaries is so different...it just hasn't been tested.
reply
Well, it really is as it says there, in seconds the payment is in the other person's account, what you know, everything is tracked by the government, here those who do P2P business do not like payments by pix, they say they are from the "devil".... hahaha
reply
112 sats \ 0 replies \ @AnderTk 13h
I completely agree with your take on Pix — as a Brazilian, I feel genuinely proud of this system. Transactions are incredibly fast, and easy to use.
What makes it so successful is that all Brazilian banks were required to adopt and integrate it. It works kind of like a simplified and centralized version of the Lightning Network. Everyone has at least one Pix key — often two or more — which can be linked to things like a document number, phone number, or even a randomly generated code. You can also change which bank is associated with each key at any time.
I believe the US isn’t too fond of Pix because it poses a threat to credit and debit card systems, which in Brazil are mostly dominated by American companies like Visa and Mastercard.
reply
103 sats \ 0 replies \ @freetx 12h
Does the government need to actually run the thing to achieve their ends?
Exactly, which is why .gov doesn't really care about CDBCs from that end. Its actually easier and better for them to outsource the surveillance. They get the best of all words: They don't need to risk constitutional challenges, less physical work and money for them, still get the same data, and its yet another pressure point for them to keep on large banks which makes sure that the job hopping pipeline from regulator -> corporate consultant stays open.
Either you trust in rule of law or you don’t.
Like the laws preventing illegal entry over the border, right Paul?
reply
I agree with the general sentiment about Krugman, but I suspect he has a point about the US financial system not wanting to lose the control they have currently. -Tom
reply
Honestly, the only good thing I see about Pix is that it's teaching people how to use digital money. Bitcoin's way ahead, though. Brazil's headed down the path of the next Venezuela, and Pix is a powerful tool for the government to get total control over everyone.
reply