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BITCOIN..... always fucking with my head.....
593 sats \ 25 comments \ @thecommoner 26 May FiresidePhilosophy
I am going to try and keep this short but I fear I have not fully accepted and applied Bitcoin to my previously programmed understanding of the natural world around me....
As I sit here this morning thinking about how to operate my business on a Bitcoin standard, and how to help ensure that business is able to compete and sustain itself into perpetuity... I continue to fall back to this idea of aligning the business model most closely with Bitcoin...this has to be the guiding/founding principal if I am going to have even a chance of succeeding and leaving some type of foundation for my future humans (including my kiddos) to build upon...(no pressure right :) )
So....in my head....I start with the concept that we (humanity) now have two(2) markets in which we operate (or in which we communicate value to each other)(I know there are more methods but not everyone wants kisses and hugs from me-so just go with it)....
We have the FIAT method/system/network...think basically everything you have ever known, every system that you have ever used, every network you have ever been a part of.....is how you operated your life...it drove your desires, your dreams, you (and I) knew...just knew...that the way to get what you wanted in life was to work hard, earn FIAT, and spend minimally...and this worked until we find ourselves here today with those "earners" finding it more and more difficult to obtain the "basics" of life (housing, food, etc...)
AND....
We have the Bitcoin method/system/network - which is a system that is built upon a digital ledger that is immutable, decentralized, incorruptible, open to everyone, and bounded to "nature" by the energy used to materialize it....
These two systems are currently operating side by side....which is and will continue creating friction between the two until such time as one evolves/grows/expands/wins out over the other...(and when I think about which system I would rather operate in/on....BITCOIN is simply the best choice) (its like people choosing to live in the system/network where the earth is the center of the universe/solar system or you live in the system/network where the sun is the center of the universe/solar system and then continue evolving to the current system/network where we don't know where the center of the universe is)....
If you live in the old FIAT system/network.....life will make less and less sense and devolve into chaos and despair as everyone is out for themselves and to acquire as much wealth for themselves as possible (using whatever means possible-which includes passing laws to enrich themselves)....or you can live in/on a free network/system that incentivizes users to cooperate and share data (and in turn value) with as many people as possible - which allows all those users to benefit from the open exchange of everything and in/on which the best ideas/businesses/people win out more as a result of them doing good....
Just think...everyone is incentivized to operate within the Bitcoin network....everyone who is used to voting in their own favor...everyone building ways to scam from others....everyone just building in hopes of creating wealth and not realizing they have to extract that wealth from others in order to enrich themselves....they are all incentivized to build it within Bitcoin...and they will all realize that Bitcoin is hard...and can't be fucked with....and leverage will wreck you...or they won't....and they will be wrecked!!!
----- So with all that in mind ------
I challenge you - the reader - the thinker - the doer.....
When you are building your business.... remember.... its easy to build things the way we have always built them and simply add-on Bitcoin to your payment rails....(this will start you on your path)....but remember...this market is ever evolving and the end game is 100% Bitcoin 100% of the time.... and so you have to constantly ask yourself....does this work on 100% Bitcoin? Can I live 100% on Bitcoin as a result of this business? Is it built on a foundation that simply can't be rugged from under you?
Only time will tell - and only you can control what you are doing to effect change in that future.....
For my Real Estate peeps out there....you have heard/read some of my rags before and I hope you find value in this idea....
I see the world built upon Bitcoin as one that is full of opportunity, and enlightenment. One which humanity works together towards enlightenment (both spiritually and physically)(and yes physical enlightenment is a metaphor for a better scientific understanding of the "natural" laws of this world) and riches go from simply "monetary" and revert back towards something more like "legacy." As such....
Please consider this (feedback welcome).....
100% of my properties profit is retained in Bitcoin.... The property is successful when the Bitcoin retained is as valuable as the property (in FIAT terms)... I will never "refinance" to "pull" cash out and make more "money" although I certainly could.... This allows me to utilize the Bitcoin a) as collateral if needed for property improvements/repairs... This would also allow me to "de-leverage" in FIAT terms over time.... This also allow me to not have to constantly raise rents in order to "cover" the debt (as the debt disappears) This allows me to reduce rents....yes - read that again - While all the other companies out there are turning over their debt every 7-10-15 years...I will be sitting here....holding rents flat or reducing them over time....
Not sure - but I think that gives me a distinct advantage when people are looking for housing...I mean if someone told me they could reduce rents going forward (I would call them insane or look for the money printer - or call it a ponzi....or something) but I don't see how this fails?
Oh yea - and I can still offer my residents a 50/50% split of the appreciated FIAT price of the Bitcoin they pay each month when compared to their "FIAT" rent amount....which saves them even more money....and that incentivizes them to stay living at my property.... which saves me on turnover costs.... oh yea...and at some point they likely don't have to pay rent any longer as the value of the Bitcoin they paid likely exceeds my costs to operate the building :)
I mean....just holy fuck....me just saying this scares me....It is so counterintuitive....it really is the epitome of Michael Saylor saying.... "All your models are broken" and my leaning into that thought of his and thinking....if my model of rental housing is broken....how can it be "fixed" within Bitcoin.....and this is what I came up with....
What will you come up with? Can you improve upon this plan of mine? I have been trying to think of ways to commercialize this and am pretty sure I need to start a non-profit and get donations and start buying.... I could also use someone familiar with property management software who wants to put together an FOSS system that adds in some backend accounting algorithms that handles some of these calculations automatically as no one wants to think about it....they just want to see it working for them....and then maybe they will learn more about it....I mean the possibilities are truly mindboggling
Ugh....that's it for now....my brain hurts
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50 sats \ 3 replies \ @OT 27 May
Why not just keep it simple with something like a 10% discount if they pay rent in sats?
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50 sats \ 2 replies \ @thecommoner OP 27 May
So maybe its just me....but here is how I play your model out....
You have charged me at least (and I emphasize AT LEAST) 10% more than you need to for rent if you can afford to continue operating and offer me this discount. This represents to me a breakdown of trust as I cannot trust you are going to simply offer me a 10% discount and break even or even at a loss??? No it reinforces to me that you are charging maybe 20-30-50....who knows what the topside profit margin is....whatever it is you have calculated it out and you know what price fluctuations will effect your sales within reasonable % points.... this probably reflects poorly upon my overall perception of the business and causes me to be overly aware of any problems and excessively critical of the business in order to help me feel I "got my monies worth" or whatever....
This certainly is problematic to every business and it doesn't matter if I pay you in sats or USD or hard labor.... (as an employee). I am incentivized to work for more from you no matter how I can get it...and that isn't fair for either party....but it is the system FIAT demands....
This Bitcoin appreciation concept works no matter the amount as it becomes less about making more for less....and more about more for each other? Or maybe I have this Bitcoin thing all wrong...???
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT 27 May
You have charged me at least (and I emphasize AT LEAST) 10% more than you need to for rent if you can afford to continue...
I didn't think renting property would have such slim margins. Usually buying wholesale you sell to retail at at least double the cost.
Accepting a 10% discount incentives people to pay in sats while also showing the receiver their conviction that it will appreciate over time.
Maybe I've misunderstood something
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner OP 27 May
Every property is positioned differently depending on the needs of the owner...but yes I would expect to be making significantly more than 10%....
What I am getting at though is that if you are operating on a Bitcoin standard you could be holding rents flat or even reducing them (which undercuts the FIAT competition) and makes your model that much more sustainable over the long time horizon...
To many Bitcoiners are still stuck on this business model of making the most FIAT off the customer/consumer....and to me at least this market is not just about that...
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92 sats \ 6 replies \ @Undisciplined 26 May
I'm currently trying to think this through for myself. If I can find people who want my services (economic advice), how do I price that service in a way that benefits both sides?
The most obvious method is an equity model, but that opens me to all of the volatility of the business I'm working with.
I think a middle ground of profit share (or some sort of commission, when appropriate) and a base pay that's tied to long-run expectations about bitcoin's purchasing power could do the trick.
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30 sats \ 5 replies \ @thecommoner OP 27 May
I imagine you take a base pay in Bitcoin (to cover FIAT costs associated with whatever cost you incur for said advice) plus a % of any upside in value of that Bitcoin for some agreed upon time frame.... I imagine it works something like this... for smaller Bitcoin/FIAT terms (lets say $100.00 or less you might have a 24-72 or 24-96 hour slice of time for splitting any appreciation in FIAT terms....and you can lock it in to an account for yourself to receive a discount in those FIAT terms equal to the split in Bitcoin terms...so you never exchange anything afterwards...except the software credits the NPUB (or maybe this works with chaumian mints? or something?....never thought about that....or as a federation....that owns the business and provides this to their customers.....holy fuck....could that work?)
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42 sats \ 4 replies \ @Undisciplined 27 May
I'm hoping to work something out that doesn't require any reference to fiat exchange rates, but we'll see if that's tenable.
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28 sats \ 3 replies \ @thecommoner OP 27 May
Hell yea...that is going to be super difficult if you have long term agreements...one side or the other may get wrecked depending on volatility....unless both parties are well insulated to such volatility? Though even then....I wouldn't want to be on the 1 Bitcoin owed....if FIAT comparison takes a massive move....again unless the vol is ironed out with some type of protection maybe....???
Thats the beauty of holding the FIAT comparison....there is always protection in FIAT terms...even if FIAT ends and you owe a bunch in Bitcoin terms...(if FIAT has indeed ended then Bitcoin has become the only medium of exchange and it doesn't really matter anymore?
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 27 May
You’re definitely right. I haven’t come up with a model that works for me and doesn’t blow up on the other party.
Another thought I had was basically two fixed wage rates: i.e. $100k and 0.1 BTC per year. They’ll somewhat balance out over time, while likely appreciating, and the value range isn’t likely to become untenable for either side in the short term.
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27 sats \ 1 reply \ @thecommoner OP 27 May
I think this is that "balancing act".... We have to maintain the floating rate of Bitcoin value as compared to the FIAT system we are forced to interact with....at least until such time as the FIAT system becomes more unstable than the Bitcoin one....
Imagine what we are going to do when USD (and other major world currencies) see even higher inflation rates.... It will get even more difficult to value things in the old systems...and things will be getting even less expensive in Bitcoin terms... imagine being locked in to pay 100k sats but instead of being valued at $100.00 usd it becomes $1000.00 from one month to the next?
For me - that is why I let the BTC value float when compared to the rent I charge...as I lock those rents in for 12 months....but imagine the pain I will feel if I lock someone into a 12 month lease at 1000.00/mo. and the value of that 1000.00 usd drops to 500.00 due to inflation.... It really is a matter of controlling the time and the value vs one or the other...
I think we are going to see a lot less long-term loan products on Bitcoin...and you won't find people with "annual" salaries but you likely find shorter and shorter term salaries....or locked in and paid up front or something....locked into a long-term multisig with monthly withdrawals or something based on performance?
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75 sats \ 2 replies \ @AG 26 May
You are exploring untasted horizons with your approach, I admire your courage annd curret results. Wish we had more conversations about business models like this, founded in bitcoin ethics, more often. Especially in the ~AGORA...
I wonder how d you keep the books? To embrace 100% bitcoin as you say, one should not touch the fiat network at all, leave it in the past century as a bad memory. But I assume you're still keeping the fiat books in order, firstly because you have, I suspect, a fiat registered business that needs, by contract, to declare back to the higher ranks.
You are in a good position to leave fiat behind. Keeping two feet in two different worlds is hard, not impossible, but just requires double admin work. For how long are you willing to do it? Are you ready to cancel whatever binds you with the fiat world?
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @thecommoner OP 26 May
I am and will get there soon enough....
The books suck - but they are currently being managed appropriately for both FIAT reporting and Bitcoin retention :)
Truth is I would rather cut off a body part than "sell" any of my Bitcoin just to pay off the loans....so I am locked in to both systems for a while....though there will be a day :)
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @AG 27 May
That's great to know you have a low time preference plan 💪 stick to it, keep it up!
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64 sats \ 2 replies \ @SimpleStacker 26 May
Mmmmm... I think if you believe Bitcoin is going to change human nature, you'll be sorely disappointed.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 26 May
Truth.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner OP 26 May
Well - seeing that I believe Bitcoin has already changed human nature you are going to have to give me more to go on than this?
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42 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 26 May
I can still offer my residents a 50/50% split of the appreciated FIAT price of the Bitcoin they pay each month
Have you written about how many tenants take you up on this? What's the holding period for the bitcoin? Do you do a 2-of-3 multisig with them or is it trust based?
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50 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner OP 26 May
I currently have 1 of 4 units who have taken me up on it.... I first discussed this idea with them all in October of 2023 and 2 of them were going to pursue it but 1 of them had trouble with his partner being uncomfortable I think.... So for now it is just them...
For now it is still based purely on them having to trust me to give them their share of the split when they ask...and they can recognize their share anytime for the 6 months following their payment.
I just know that if this idea was automated and part of a property management software program - it would be adopted like hotcakes and would really start things off in retail-clown world
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42 sats \ 4 replies \ @rootmachine 26 May
WOW! This read like the inner monologue of someone who’s been orange-pilled so hard they started dreaming in satoshis. I felt like I was getting a motivational speech and a therapy session from a Bitcoiner on a mountaintop yelling "THERE IS NO SECOND BEST!" into the void.
P.S. Your brain might hurt, but you’re hurting it in the best way possible. Just sayin'.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner OP 26 May
Funny thing about Bitcoin....there was a time before it and a time after it... the time after it is ours to manifest and as such if you think about life built in a manner that is recordable on a ledger for eternity.... I mean that life gets real - real fast!
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 26 May
go away
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @rootmachine 26 May
umm... ok. sorry for opinion then.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 26 May
youre not sorry because it wasn't your opinion. prompt your llm better and make it add to the discussions or go away. as is all of your replies are weird echo-y summaries of the op. not cool.
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @denlillaapan 26 May
@remindme in 3 days
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