It is post-centric and discoverable, vs discussion-centric. Comments are much less "real". Most things that are interesting (to me) are scattered across time (e.g., what is fundamentally the same conversation threads through time and multiple posts) and the current means of organizing and presenting is time-bound. This exerts a force where SN displays itself in the least advantageous way.
This doesn’t solve your problem, at least not completely. But I wonder if being able to switch between posts and comments, or just have them intermingled, on the home page would help. Kinda like browsing new, but this was it’s not just post centric, and you see the highest zapranked items, regardless of type
Edit: basically adding this dropdown to the hot page
It's an interesting start. This seems like one of the things where a lot of bottom-up efforts like the one you just described will give insights and point the way to larger compositions. Most people are so thoroughly trapped by the existing paradigms that they'll never figure it out (look at LLM chat interfaces as the most stunning example), so it requires a different kind of mind[s] to get there probably.
The intermingling idea seems very promising as an insight-generating tool. The "comment reputation" idea @k00b introduced the other week is a cool building block.
Old GameFAQs message boards were pretty active. They had a system where the topic with the latest comment was at the top so the default sort was based on activity.
I like the current hot metric but I wonder if recent activity couldn't also factor into the default hot sort
This is a very good point to bring up here since it's sometimes not clear how bad something really is. We know we're bad at evergreen-ness, but that someone would say this is literally the worst thing about SN is very good to know, haha
I'm glad I asked since I apparently was so wrong what the worst thing about SN would be for most people!
I guess my assumption that it would be the wallets only applies to new stackers. But maybe not even that is true?
It's a good point. I solved wallet issues and don't think about it anymore. My pain points are around long-term use and value, which are probably not representative.
It appears as a wall of text with unstructured/random content. Technical stuff, policitcs, art, everything. Some things I find interesting, others I'd rather not see. The core idea, BTC integration aside, seems to be very similar to Reddit. On Reddit, I can more easily select subreddits, and my homepage is curated based on my preferences. I'd love to see that, but I also have to admit that Reddit is far from perfect :)
That aside, I think the default font size is a bit too small. That's something I can easily tweak in my browser, though.
Yeah there's a lot of reddit hate here but I wouldn't mind emulating more of the old reddit (never migrated to the new UI). Much easier there to follow subreddits that you are subscribed to, and they have so many other topics. I get tired of 24/7 bitcoin talk tbh.
Me too. However, I have enjoyed discussions about music and video games, which have little to do with Bitcoin.
The approach and the context with which you open Stacker News are important. I think I have made an inherent assumption that I am opening this page for something related to Bitcoin, and I am just pleasantly surprised to find topics outside of Bitcoin that I engage in here. So maybe that's inherent in the application's name, Stacker News, with 'Stacker' at the forefront. So unless we redefine who stacker is, it will be difficult to eliminate that association.
But I don't think we want to get rid of the association. It's about a community of BTC stackers who enjoy other things in life and are not one-dimensional. I think that's a good direction to take rather than just focusing on Bitcoin conversations.
Yes, completely agree. But I have stumbled into these discussions.
I am wondering if there is a way where discoverability of these topics is easier. Then I will come to stacker news for these discussions instead of when I want to read Bitcoin related news
imo the worst thing is that engagement is pretty cyclical, and if your post doesn't gain traction in the first 6 hours or so of posting it, it probably won't get much attention
I think in 2022 there were more well known bitcoiners on here (remember mutiny people?) Then later some plebs started to shine through and a lot of them have stayed and are active.
I think as of late the engagement seems to have gone down. Just not enough people and all the distractions of geo politics. I guess when there's turmoil twitter is still probably the place to be.
That's what the "Random"-list is for, no? There are also some users who've made it their Jam to curate and essentially wrap said posts in a fresh post.
I think this one's not something SN can "fix" per se, but something we'd have to make a conscious decision about on an individual / Community-Level.
The big issue is lack of incentive. Stackers don't get any reward for zapping old content, which means they don't put any effort into finding it and engaging with it.
I think there are some ways to fix this and have stuff recirculate through the hot and top feeds.
Here's a thought. I read interesting posts, and the commentary on them. And then there may be more (probably also interesting) commentary, but it doesn't necessarily bubble up for me in notifications - I think it depends on whether it's on the reply thread to me. Or maybe if I'm the one who posted it.
Anyway...if there were a way to optionally see ALL NEW comments on a post that I've somehow shown interest in. Like if I zapped it, or something.
And when I say "see", I mean "it shows up in my notifications".
You can subscribe to posts youre interested in, but that’s a manual option via the overflow menu.
Maybe a user setting to automatically subscribe you to posts you zap, which means you can always go in and manually unsubscribe if you don’t want to hear about it any more
I pasted a screenshot below of the current "notify me when" options. Maybe there could be another option in Settings:
"more comments are made on a post I zapped".
...but you'd have to batch it together...so if there were 20 new comments on a post you zapped, you'd want to only see 1 when you checked notifications.
so if there were 20 new comments on a post you zapped, you'd want to only see 1 when you checked notifications.
So you only want to know if there have been new comments so you can look them up yourselves?
I am curious if you tried the 'subscribe' feature. Is it too cumbersome to subscribe manually or do you not like that you receive a separate notification for each reply?
Yeah, honestly I'm probably too lazy to right click and subscribe. As a matter of fact I didn't even know you could do that! But if I zap, I'm thinking I'd want to subscribe. Maybe. Who knows, maybe I'd find it too many notifications.
Actually maybe zapping is too low a bar. Maybe it should be something like...if I ever commented on the post. Or maybe 2 separate options?
I think it needs more users mainly pretty much everything else is good. More users then it will bring more discussion and more territories and the sub territory
I think what concerns me the most is the direction and goals of Stacker.news. Personally, I’ve gradually moved away from Twitter, Facebook, and Reddit to use Stacker.news because I see the superiority in its economic model and philosophical values:
Writers are encouraged through sats.
Commenters are more thoughtful before speaking because of sats as well.
I believe Stacker.news will become something much greater than what’s happening now. If it only revolves around BTC, the topics will remain very narrow. It won’t attract many people. But if more topics are allowed, there will certainly be more opposing opinions — however, it will attract a wider audience.
I think both of these directions are still unfolding naturally on Stacker.news, and I fully support this kind of organic growth.
The worst thing about Stacker is its relatively limited reach and viewership.
You need to have sats to post and participate (realistically) which means that people using Stacker News are relatively knowledgeable about Bitcoin already if not full-blown enthusiasts.
Great for the quality of content and interaction, not as great for being widely read.
On the scale of Quality VS Quantity, Stacker News leans heavily towards "Quality" which makes it stand out from almost every other forum or social media site.
It's like a really high-quality club that builds a comport of dedicated patrons (users, fans) that are intensely loyal. But lightning-enabled websites are a very small fraction of the internet so far.
Regarding number 2:
I feel the same discomfort as you do. But after all, that's his business. And I have mine. We're simply doing our own work on Stacker.news. Even if he calls me a shitcoiner a hundred times, it doesn't really affect your presence or mine, does it?
I always respond with the same sentence whenever he calls me a shitcoiner. And out of respect for him, I never copy and paste it — I type it out every single time. Without him, Stacker.news wouldn't be as lively. And without him, we wouldn't have such a strong wall standing against scammers and bad actors.
one day he shall leave, and stacker.news will suffer under the avalanche of wrong-thinkers & wrong-doers, at which point the only reasonable solution wud be to create a Darth-bot, in order to keep away the scammers/spammers/wrong-thinkers. or hopefully by then the wise stackers will have enough knowledge of how to prevent degeneracy.
Thanks for taking a look at the reports I just submitted on Github. Just letting you know I was the one who did that, but haven't linked my account to here.
I do not believe that attaching a wallet is something bad, on the contrary it is a good thing, adds a barrier of entry into some technical knowledge and does not allow SN to be filled with wild monkeys. 🐵🙊🙈🙉
We are still at the point that if someone is very stupid, where it goes to Tiktok, it does not go toSn.
i think it wud be pretty cool to have recommended comments and entire threads as well as posts that are relevant to the post that i am reading. maybe u cud experiment with noting which threads accumulate the most action (sats and/or CC's) and presenting them for observation.
Another ideas - this is not by far the worst thing, BUT, to copy the link and get your referral code, you need to right click on the three dots under the title, click copy link then in the little pop-up that comes up, you need to AGAIN click "copy link". At least in windows.
One more thing since I'm complaining - the edit link, once you've written and submitted a post or comment, is tiny tiny tiny.
It's embarrassing to admit how long it took me to discover it. Months at least. And I think that was only because someone mentioned editing a post, so I looked more carefully, and found it.
then in the little pop-up that comes up, you need to AGAIN click "copy link". At least in windows.
Oh, right, we're using the Share API which will invoke the native sharing mechanism of your device. If your device has none, we just copy the link which is what you want. We use the text copy link in both cases though.
Not sure what the best compromise here would be since I believe some stackers actually like to use the native sharing mechanism.
Would it help you if the URL already includes the referral link? So you can copy it from the URL bar?
One more thing since I'm complaining - the edit link, once you've written and submitted a post or comment, is tiny tiny tiny.
It's embarrassing to admit how long it took me to discover it. Months at least. And I think that was only because someone mentioned editing a post, so I looked more carefully, and found it.
Wow, that's wild, didn't know the size could be this much of a problem, thanks for letting us know!
Yeah, once you know the edit button is there, it jumps out at you, but initially I was clueless.
Personally I guess it would help me if the URL included the referral link, for when I link to posts. But I do also like that the current URL is nice and straightforward, with just #922174. I like clean links, makes you feel like you're not tracked!
I dont feel you actually need to attach a wallet, only those that want to pull sats from sn need that.
CCs work fine for the use on this site.
I think the biggest problem with this site is that it isnt large enough, and it isnt reaching enough eyes.
I don't consider attaching a wallet a bad thing, even that I do not use this feature. Is more like for advanced users.
SN is too young and is normal that some things are not going as people expected. But I see a lot of activity on github repo and that is a good sign.
As the worst thing on SN is not about the software but about the users that don't understand properly what really is SN.
Too damn many shitcoiners, grifters, scammers, assmilkers, agents, clueless ignorants.
Yes, many do not like my words because are too pussies to say out loud the truth being afraid to not "insult" others. I don't give a shit. I will always point out the obvious things and uncomfortable truths.
SN main focus should be Bitcoin and bitcoin education, news, debates (around bitcoin solutions), discussions that involve bitcoin.
Many will jump and say that we need also other things to talk about, but those are totally meaningless.
People MUST understand once and for all: without Bitcoin adoption and good users education WE ARE FUCKED. Nothing else matters.
Stacker News users are like... not only the 99.9% of "crypto" people but probably the 99.9% of Bitcoin people.
Most 'Bitcoin owners' have never used Lightning, they may only be vaguely familiar with what it is.
Lightning assumes self-custody, curiosity, 'attaching a wallet', creating quality content plus being generous with regards to the efforts and quality contributions of others.
So in the venn diagram of 'Bitcoin curious', 'app-familiar', 'patient', 'exploratory', and 'Sat Generous' (to zap) is a very small number of people right now.
To self-custody you have to take responsibility, to take responsibility takes a certain personality type, and to 'use Lightning' on Stacker News you're also on the 'cutting edge' of new technologies.
It's a small number of people... considering that >99% of people have never "used" Bitcoin.
I wish we had a lot more users making a lot more posts an extent that it would make more sense for people to subscribe to territories rather than auto-sub to all of them and then just mute the ones you don’t want to see.
The amount of satoshi's you need to create a new thread is bonkers! I mean 50k?
I wanted to create a Fantasy Premier League & UCL threads but when found out I had to pay that much, I just disappeared fro SN, now back again just participating wheverever i can but mostly in sports events.
Footnotes
Sn.copy linkin both cases though.