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So, I managed to set up my Alby Hub and partially connect it to SN. Thus, I received a horse:
My nerve-wrecking experiences this morning (fighting with Alby and with connections and clicking buttons I don't understand what they do) have now resulted in the following:
  • I'm less confident I understand what's going on.
  • I can only non-custody zap from browser, whereas my phone—which I use to zap and comment quickly on the go—draws from my SN balance. (ed.: and now with a balance, even the browser draws from here and not my connected wallet. Ugh, hopeless.)
  • There is now an extra fee involved in each transaction, so I'm torn between having a low payout threshold (so that funds don't get stuck in SN) and a high payout threshold (so that I economize on fees). Didn't have that worry before, when I could merely hold a small balance and manually withdraw to Alby, Blink, or Phoenix when it was time.
  • when(!) something goes wrong, I'll be even less able to troubleshoot wth is up since the whole ordeal is more intertwined and incomprehensible than before.
I know there are some guides (#734359, #816152 etc...) but like @elvismercury says: "This will reveal that I am a dumbass": the guides seemed less than helpful, either because they were overwhelming or there were steps I had to do that wasn't covered—or worse, because they assumed tech abilities well beyond anything I could master and/or care to learn in a few hours.
I'm pretty new here (#827557) so I don't presume to tell others—much more tech savvy, business-minded and those with with plenty more experience than me—how to run their ships.
What I will say is this:
  1. the economics slash sustainability of SN was already doubtful, bankrolled by the daily donations, and while I'm happy to take the sats while it lasts, I have pretty low confidence that there will be enough boost/ad/fees to generate such amounts in the future. Since we're all assmilkers here—somebody call Darth!— once the money runs out most of the remaining engagement soon will as well.
  2. The second thing is the recruitment/spread/growth aspect of this. Switching costs are a thing, most people are busy and don't want to add an extra hassle or learn a new thing: If it's not easier or noticeably better than what I have, why bother? Among the dozen or so people I've explained SN to, no more than one or two have been even remotely interested (and only @Shugard actually showing up and made an effort). Everyone else have been put off mostly by the tech obstacle of yet another app/login/safekeep/walled garden. (At least Nostr has the promise of integrating with everyone...)
With the upgraded noncustodial/connection debacle, we have that tech obstacle so much worse.
Now, for the economics to work, SN needs scale. 10x or 100x the usual suspects on here: More people making more content and comments+posts such that boosting becomes valuable for advertisers and that the activity can generate funds etc—for our beautiful SN overlords as well as ourselves through the leaderboard pot.
But more people means you're catering to a clientele that will be less tech savvy and less willing/able to connect fivehundred things and run them noncustodially, over Tor, from an offgrid location powered by your own diesel-generator. Honestly, guys, nobody gives a shit.
With the next dozen people I tell about SN, I'm going to have even less luck now that I can't even explain what they have to do to get their hands on the sats they're supposedly earning from commenting and shitposting.
Bitcoin is difficult enough, to grasp intellectually or to care for cryptographically.
Hesitantly lukewarm on the future here.

if you don't get the reference, you're in for an internet treat:
I have so many thoughts but not time to express them, so here's a handful:
  • This has been a revealing exercise wrt the state of the btc ecosystem, what it means to build stuff and operate a business, the various frictions (including political and legal frictions) that are relevant, etc. It's really driven a wedge between "what is technically possible" and "what will the current ecosystem support".
  • Your learning journey (and mine) are actually the coolest things here, even though it's confusing and weird and frustrating. We'll wind up with some deep understandings of some things that could not have been arrived at through other means.
  • How will the site react to this changeover? How much does the activity here truly depend on earning sats? Or rather: how does earning sats influence the nature of the activity that's here? What unexpected consequence of cowboy credits?
  • Are there other ways that SN could occupy a useful place in the btc-relevant universe, given the imposed constraints? What if SN become some kind of hub, either formally or not?
  • Will anything change w/ regulatory clarity and the advent of the Trump administration?
  • What if SN HQ moved to Uruguay? Or El Salvador? Or that seastead whose name I forget, from Patri Friedman?
It's hard to foresee the answers, but an exciting and consequential time to bear witness and play a part. Something you might consider is how your posts could document aspects of this journey for others -- you're already contributing interesting things by seeding the conversation w/ your experience.
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truly, all good questions. Thank you!
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TLDR for SN change on Jan 3rd
What if SN HQ moved to Uruguay? Or El Salvador?
You don't have to. You just have to say to any gov: FUCK OFF, YOU HAVE NO JURISDICTION OVER ME. but yeah, you need big balls for that.
I will personally challenge any gov to show me how they can have any jurisdiction over my sats or even a word to say about them.
Being a bitcoiner it means also TO DEFY ANY GOV. Otherwise... we are back to square one.
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I personally know a handful of ungovernable types who are now being ungovernable in prison for tax evasion. I think your prospects depend a lot on the country you're in and whether you're trying to run a business or not.
Perhaps you will prove more ungovernable than they.
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who are now being ungovernable in prison for tax evasion.
losers that didn't know how to "play" the system, they play it as shitizens. shitizens MUST pay taxes.
Take example here how you play the system with their own tools: https://www.losthorizons.com/BulletinBoard.htm
I said many times:
  • shitizens MUST pay taxes, is their duty and is a crime not paying because is a violation of contact.
  • sovereign individuals do not have to pay anything to anybody, only if there's a specific contract.
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What is going to happen from 3rd of January here? Does it also affects me?
👉but yeah, you need big balls for that.
Yes, because Stacker News is based in the United States of America. It would be injurious to health if they say this 😂
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See pinned post on front page: #814839
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BREAKING NEWS: stackers are not reading SN pinned posts.
I wonder if they read also SN FAQ and SN guide from the bottom, if they do not see the top pinned posts on top...
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Nope, I did see it but it didn't make any sense to me. Now I see I need to attach a wallet to send and receive sats only. But your meme said that Stacker News will be governed by laws related to it.
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and now with a balance, even the browser draws from here and not my connected wallet. Ugh, hopeless
This isn’t a bug, we first try to spend from your custodial balance. If you try to zap more than what you have on here, we will try your attached wallet.
But more people means you're catering to a clientele that will be less tech savvy and less willing/able to connect fivehundred things and run them noncustodially, over Tor, from an offgrid location powered by your own diesel-generator. Honestly, guys, nobody gives a shit.
Do you think adding KYC wallets like ZBD or Strike will help for the people who don’t give a shit? You’ll be able to configure them from within SN. Does this change your perspective on SN’s future?
Imo, what you’re describing are growing pains / things early adopters have to deal with until we’ve figured out the best UI/UX.
With the next dozen people I tell about SN, I'm going to have even less luck now that I can't even explain what they have to do to get their hands on the sats they're supposedly earning from commenting and shitposting.
You don’t need to have a wallet attached to earn rewards. Attaching a wallet is exclusively to zap real sats.
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Imo, what you’re describing are growing pains / things early adopter have to deal with. totally. Fully agree with you here and I admire you guys for trying. Impressed with what you're building.
I hope I'm just too blind/dumb to see the future you do...and if/when reality proves me wrong I guess I'll just apologize—and in the meantime enjoy the ride
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you also won’t need to apologize, we know it wasn’t easy
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THIIISS MEME, precisely
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Gotta BELIEVE like believing in Bitcoin haha
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KYC wallets like ZBD or Strike
cowboy credits are 100x way better than those 2 craps.
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I'm slowly figuring this all out myself, but I'm also confident that all of these things are going to continue to become more user friendly as time goes on.
My first PC was windows 3.1 and I had to run most shit on dos. Now everything kind of just works.
It's just growing pains.
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took thirty goddamn years for that.
And in hindsight, not obvious that it was worth the hassle in the beginning. The average person, or even bottom 90%, could have sat out and enjoyed the ride beginning 5-10-15 years later
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It depends on how you look at it. I still have a lot of great memories from those times, and I don't have many regrets about accomplishing a difficult task, just because it was easier for someone else later...
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Exactly. I was a slow learner. Once I got the basics down, I clung to my dos for probably too long because I grew to like it. That helped me later in life with Linux and figuring out these damn attached wallets.
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Ahh the good old days, when sound never worked on video games out of the box, and you had to fuck around with the settings for an hour just to get it to work.
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Nice post. Now you just need yourself a gun.
You should be able to set up your attached wallet on mobile as well.
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I figure I could, just didn't have more effort/patience in me.
Growing pains, like all the dudes say in the comments. One step at a time
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Enable device sync in your settings as mentioned in the banner when you configure a wallet
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Gonna pretend I understand any of those words.
@remindme in 2 days
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ok, I did this and the computer said yes.
Doesn't allow me to zap from the phone regardless. What else am I supposed to do? tagging @siggy47 and @grayruby etc, since I imagine ek is busy with more pressing matters than lowly little me
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50 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 4h
Did you enter the passphrase on on your mobile in the same screen?
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20 sats \ 7 replies \ @siggy47 4h
Okay, so you
  1. activated sync devices in settings on the device you can currently send and receive on with an attached wallet, then...
  2. Copied the seed phrase, then
  3. Activated device settings on the second device, and pasted the seed phrase, and the seed phrase was accepted?
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yes. The second device says "Device sync is enabled" and data sharing between etc.
But when I zap from the second device, it gives me a lightning invoice to pay instead of drawing from wallet
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40 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 4h
Technical wizards like me often employ a sophisticated technique known as "turn it off, then turn it back on again" to solve problems. Has this already been attempted?
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HAHAHA. yeah, love that journey for you
Seems like it worked though
20 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 3h
Can you see the wallet attached for sending on mobile?
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Don't think so?
Exactly. Easy peasy
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I'm sorry that the wallet attachment UX sucks, but we plan to make it better.
It's hard to appreciate how hard it was getting everything else involved here to work well, but on the brightside, most stackers' frustrations begin and end with the attachment UX right now - which we haven't given its due yet.
It might've been a hard means to a pointless end. But that's the crazy thing about the future of new things - we don't know. As soberly as I can, I wake up and pick optimism most days.
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pretty much, lol.
Build it, please, and drag me down the other side of that normal distribution!
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They do resolve pretty much all of the issues raised in the post.
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@remindme in 6 months
you are new to running LN nodes... and you will remember my words
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Something we have in common is remembering what people have said.
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lol you, a cowboy credit maxi? Please, spread that shit somewhere else.
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soon you will understand why...
I already explain it several times here
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I know you have explained it. This might be the only time I am ever able to call you a shitcoiner lol
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LOL you are the one that still use a legacy address and you call me shitcoiner ? Let me know when you will run your own LN node... and we can talk.
You still do not understand my position over CCs. CCs are not shitcoins. SN using CCs is not doing a shitcoinery. But many people will get hurt when will try to use p2p zaps without proper knowledge of running a LN node.
I will repeat: under 1000 sats a LN payment is only avoiding a force close, but that doesn't mean it will not happen. Using SN with other custodial account it doesn't mean you are using p2p zaps. You are just throwing the dead cat in other's garden...
@remindme in 1 year
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The shit storm that is about to happen....lol I can wait patiently and use CCs while everyone else struggles.
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Why people understand me wrong?! I am not against using SN with p2p zaps. I am only raising a huge warning that people are not ready for using these p2p zaps and still do not understand what is going on!
I know very well and test the p2p zaps, but I simply do not see their usefulness. SN is simply chicken shit scared that someday a gov will come and ask them to pay a license for money transmitting thing...
Literally this:
That's why I am pissed off... not because SN want to push people into using self-custody.
USING P2P ZAPS REQUIRE A LOT OF KNOWLEDGE AND RUNNING PROPER LN NODES! Not even 10% of stackers are running LN nodes. THIS is the biggest problem.
BITCOIN MEANS DEFIANCE TO THE STATE!
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Everyone is living in fear of becoming the next "criminal" money transmitter. lol
I have not dealt with any of that yet. So I am happy to learn from your experience and look for more comments here to give me easy solutions to link my own LN wallet to SN.
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Thank you for enhancing my internet literacy.
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You didn't know about it?!
I think about it every time the SN horse comes up
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I'm a fairly unsophisticated internet user.
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LFG SIGGY!
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Hey, just asking what getting a hat and a horse does? Does it increase your reach or something?
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No, is not "increasing" anything, is just a symbolic reward icon that you did something on SN. But we can't tell you what, is up to you to discover.
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Got it, thanks again. I will try to find them.
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precisely.
It's a closely guarded secret among the SN illuminati.
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Gotcha! I'll try to get it.
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That video was a surprisingly risky click!
Ah, the internet twelve years ago.
I mean the custodial coinos wallet works fine for me! I just push the custody elsewhere until I’m ready to claim the sats
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I just push the custody elsewhere until I’m ready to claim the sats That is exactly my idea here...
you're trying to create a minuscule self-custody/sovereignty improvement that makes it 10x or 100x harder to grow to the scale you need for (economic) sustainability/take-off threshold... and in the meantime all most users do is push the custody risk elsewhere.
Hurray
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Well it’s my choice to not run my own lightning ably hub haha
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