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55 sats \ 23 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov \ parent \ on: BTC Investing: 1 million Sats or Fold(FLD) Stock? An analysis Stacker_Stocks

You both have a lot of faith in the 401k program and stocks. I also have a 401k, but I dont know if it will really be worth anything by the time I take out of it, because every country is making fiat worthless.

39 sats \ 3 replies \ @grayruby 17 Nov

I have very little faith. I have retirement account that I had many years ago from a corporate job. I pulled it out of the stupid mutual fund manager they had it with and now self direct it but I can’t hold bitcoin in it. There is a tax advantage to me keeping it and if I withdraw it, I pay a huge tax penalty so it’s not worth it.

My real retirement account is Bitcoin.

54 sats \ 2 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov

Same here. I wanted to take it out, but they would take a huge amount in taxes. Which etf did you say helped fund the bitcoiners? I actually have to decide if it is worth going the 401k or roth401k....

30 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 17 Nov

The Bitwise etf gives 10% to developers but they have proven to be big shitcoiners too. They are trying to file an XRP etf. So I have soured on them compared to when it first launched. I would probably buy FBTC if I was going to do it over because they self custody and don’t use Coinbase.

34 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov

I think I have to go through fidelity, but I will be looking at their bitcoin etf very carefully. Reading all the fine print on the prospectus.

20 sats \ 18 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Nov

I don't know if "faith" is the right word. I have a retirement account from a previous job and the Bitcoin ETF is the closest thing in it to Bitcoin. The ETFs only hold Bitcoin (or really, a third party holds it for them), so I don't know why fiat collapsing would wipe out any value.

46 sats \ 8 replies \ @grayruby 17 Nov

The custodians could go bust or rug you. It’s not without risk but it’s a reasonable option based on the framework you need to work in.

50 sats \ 4 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov

I also worry that these 401k companies wont do well once people start to withdraw. What if the etfs dont manage their money well. Even worse....what if they are doing the paper bitcoin scam?

40 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Nov

They're just brokers. They'll be making money as people withdraw. They don't have to manage money (fiat) for the ETF, beyond the transactions to buy and sell the bitcoin. Unless they're committing immense and blatant financial fraud (possible), the declared amount of bitcoin is held by a custodian and the number of shares is public knowledge.

45 sats \ 2 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov

Largers companies have fallen to greed. Didnt one company take on too much bad debt and crash the economy?

40 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 17 Nov

No, the federal government's response to one company taking on too much debt may have crashed the economy, though.

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov

Didnt one company do that though? Then they tried to unload it and crashed the economy?

40 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Nov

I have to compare that risk to the tax penalty of withdrawing early. I also suspect the financial service provider would be required to make us whole if the custodian rugged them, so that also has to go into the risk calculation.

13 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 17 Nov

Yes of course. Maybe Trump will confiscate all the custodians bitcoins for his strategic reserve. Then he can have “fun playing with your bitcoins”

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov

That would be a major rug pull. Could he actually do that? Maybe it is time for me to lose my keys in a boating accident...

16 sats \ 8 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov

I put in enough to get the company match. I will also be putting it into bitcoin through an etf. But I save with the rest of my paycheck for the future. I wouldnt be surprised if the government seizes our 401ks in the future.

60 sats \ 7 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Nov

I've never put more into mine than required for matching either.

I don't expect government 401k seizures, but I could easily imagine being required to hold a certain share of US Treasuries. That's as good as a seizure to them and it's easier to pitch politically.

42 sats \ 6 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov

You dont expect it, but at the rate they are making debt and printing money, Im sure it could happen.

40 sats \ 5 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Nov

Why would it happen, though?

Like I said, making us hold their debt is the same thing financially, so why go through the political headache of confiscating hundreds of millions of peoples retirement accounts?

37 sats \ 4 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov

Just imagine, they will give you the fiat and seize your btc. In order to set up their btc reserve, they would be giving you "fair value".

40 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Nov

They will definitely cash it out in fiat. There's no claim whatsoever that it's your bitcoin. The ETF holder only has a claim on the value of those bitcoin transactions. It's the same for any other ETF, like gold or oil or whatever.

That could change if the regulations change in such a way that we can actually hold bitcoin directly in these accounts.

34 sats \ 2 replies \ @Satosora 17 Nov

Can you imagine if we could hold our own keys? That would be like paradise, but I can see a lot of people abusing that system. Maybe a multi-sig system?

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