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The legacy custodians of the fiat debt based monetary system have slyly engineered things to make it very unlikely most people will ever use Bitcoin as a MoE. Why? Because Fiats monopoly position over MoE is the basis of its power. Look at how SWIFT works. Look at how any monopoly/cartel works. The classical response of a monopoly or cartel to an innovative asymmetric new competitor is either obstruction or capture and control or a combination of both... With Bitcoin they have made sure that MoE use of Bitcoin is obstructed and to some extent captured and controlled. How? In nearly all jurisdictions the use of Bitcoin as a MoE creates a tax reporting nightmare that very few people would ever want to impose upon themselves. So most people who do stack Sats do so as a speculative commodity SoV investment.
So Satoshis original intention of creating a revolutionary decentralised P2P payments protocol alternative to the fiat MoE monopoly has largely, subtly been diverted.
In addition to the near universal KYC mass data surveillance of Bitcoin ownership has been achieved by only allowing a small number of CEXes banking access and thereby preventing substantial growth of KYC free DEXes. The ETFs further subtly entrench this narrative of Bitcoin being a speculative SoV commodity rather than a MoE.
The legacy fiat debt slavery power brokers - bankers and governments - are well on their way to capturing and controlling the protocol...they have certainly successfully and slyly managed it away from its original revolutionary purpose.
I don't think they'll be able to stop it.
Yes, the on-ramps and off-ramps to fiat are still controlled by KYC'd exchanges.
But there is a growing bitcoin circular economy that doesn't need fiat on-ramps and off-ramps.
One day you may be able to fulfill all your basic needs without ever needing to make an exchange in fiat.
When that day comes, it won't really matter how many KYC exchanges there are, or how much bitcoin is being held in banker controlled ETFs.
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I hope you are right but how do you get that critical market scale adoption to happen as things stand? To enable widespread use as MoE you need both merchants and consumers to move to Bitcoin payment but the current arbitrary tax designation of Bitcoin as a commodity makes the tax recording and reporting obligations so complex that very very few of either consumers or businesses are going to even start the process. Even in El Salvador where it appears that the tax reporting complexity of using Bitcoin as a MoE has been removed, adoption by consumers and businesses is hardly widespread- by all reports it is very limited.
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people save in harder assets. They 'spend' the softer ones. If they run out of money generally, they will sell or spend what they have to (otherwise why would someone sell a hard asset for example like a house unless it's productive/necessary for them to do so?)
In other words, bitcoin is likely the hardest asset generally speaking available anywhere... so why would someone spend it generally speaking if they have alternatives?
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Why Bitcoin is not being Widely used as a P2P means of Payment.
Because people are RETARDED.
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  1. True. But:
  2. imho the accounting and taxation rules are what scares regular merchants to most. None of the standard software packages merchants typically use supports Bitcoin, or rather the various FIFO/capital gains calculations. And exporting csv records from BtcPay or LNBits powered PoS'es will not pass an audit (since they are not tamper-proof), and oftentimes not even accepted by their accountant.
So, for regular, non-ideological merchants it's just too much of a risk and hassle.
And since money lives off its network effect of being the "generally accepted good", regular users won't hold it, if they can't spend it widely.
But even in places where they can (El Salvador, Lugano, Prague) we do not see large actual use.. This makes me sad the most.
  1. Don't underestimate how much contactless card payments have eaten Bitcoin's lunch in terms of UX. It's so convenient, fast and reliable and has built a strong network effect. I even saw a church recently, where they had Donation terminals.
Ten year ago, scanning a QR code was super advacned tech and gave Bitcoin the avangarde, "cool" image. Now it's age old tech as ppl pay by the tap of their phones/watches.
yup majority of people think it is a scam to be avoided
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Simple as.
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So Satoshis original intention of creating a revolutionary decentralised P2P payments protocol alternative to the fiat MoE monopoly has largely, subtly been diverted
I would argue it has not be diverted. That statement sounds like it was being used but due to the government's actions it has stopped being used.
  1. Bitcoin has never been used as a medium of exchange in a meaningful way.
  2. Governments haven't really tried to crack down on it in a meaningful besides a few countries
Yes, they are requiring KYC but they also have no banned it nor have stopped the move into the TRADFI world. The ETF approval in the US was a huge sign that they can't stop it.
I just left a comment related to this topic in another post. I would argue the state is NOT the main reason that bitcoin hasn't been widely used as a medium of exchange.
Non-state reasons
  1. Ignorance: The masses still don't even get what it is as a store of value, let alone a medium of exchange
  2. Blindness to the problem is solves: Most people in developed nations at least do not realize how fiat works nor how fragile their ability to pay for things actually is. They don't see how easy it is to be censored and monitored. They are beginning to see it but not to the extent where they will go learn about some new fangled Internet money.
  3. Volatility: This is due to the first two points. Because bitcoin is the only truly free market of money its market price is set by... the market. People. Plebs, investors, and traders. Like it or not they/we are the reason it is so up and down. As knowledge of bitcoin spreads and adoption increases this will decrease.
Reasons related to the state:
  1. Tax policy
  2. Tax policy
  3. Tax policy
But the state's enforcement of tax policy and KYC are not the problems that will be solved first. They are gonna be solved after a critical mass of plebs adopt bitcoin. It may take 25, 50, 100, or 200 years. Who knows.
Here's the silver lining. We are so early and a part of such a small minority of people that we can adopt it early. Be prepared for when the fiat system collapses. It will. It always does. And we can stack sats for cheap.
Stay humble, stack sats. The masses are mostly followers. They will follow us or our decedents.
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Fiat systems do tend to collapse but they also tend to be replaced by a succession of fiat systems, often initially posturing to be backed by something like gold- the transition from the British Pound to the USD being the most recent example in a long long succession of trading empires who imposed their monetary hegemony alongside trading dominance because they could. If as appears probable, the USD collapses then it would be probable that the Chinese CBDC Yuan would increase significantly in prominence and importance globally as there are very few if any nations today who can afford not to trade with China. In fact this transition is already underway with Russia and Iran already denominating trade payments with China in Yuan. The Chinese CBDC Yuan (DCEP) was designed to enable this international trade payments alternative to the current USD SWIFT Hegemony. Unless Bitcoin massively increases its capacity to enable to international trade payments and at the same time gains much wider state and citizens acceptance as a MoE then it is extremely difficult to see Bitcoin winning against the USD and the Chinese CBDC Yuan, DCEP. USD vs DCEP vs BTC
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Here's a question I have... For people to 'spend' bitcoin they have to/should likely believe that its value will not substantially increase. If it's 'going up' why spend it when there are alternatives?
So what is a fair, reasonable market cap for bitcoin? Right now it's about 1.2 ish trillion, or about .15% of 800 trillion (global wealth). So it's a fraction of a percentage of global wealth... so is that fair would that make sense? If btc is to be a good SoV, no GREAT SoV before being a good MoE... with a relatively stable value then the market cap needs to be bigger - MUCH bigger. Like maybe instead of .15% of global wealth then like maybe 3% at a minimum of all global wealth. Maybe even more.
3% is 20x the current .15%. So at 3% of global assets... (which is reasonable for a high-quality SoV like Bitcoin) this puts bitcoin at around 1.2 million $$$ for a fair price, or around 24 trillion market cap at 3% global SoV. That's at 3%. Some form of 'hyperbitcoinization' if it ever were to happen would make Bitcoin many multiples of that. So yes that gells in my opinion with Stacker News - there just isn't enough adoption yet.
Yes it's cliche... but logically speaking at 60k the folks here on SN are REALLY really early in the acceptance of Bitcoin as a SoV. If bitcoin were to become a meaningful SoV relative to other assets, ie just 3%, then it would be considerably more expensive, shockingly so actually. Crazy
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If people genuinely believe Bitcoins value will increase more than any other currency then they would logically put all their cash into Bitcoin. But currently that is not practical because to spend Bitcoin is nigh on impossible and so almost everyone still maintains a fiat cash 'float' for use as MoE. This is the case because MoE in Bitcoin has IMO been deliberately and slyly obstructed- preserving the state imposed banker orchestrated monopoly it is. The fiat brokers know that if they can assign Bitcoin into a role as a speculative commodity SoV, they have won half the battle to retain their fiat monetary hegemony. Once Bitcoin is securely ring fenced as a relatively harmless speculative commodity SoV, preferably in ETF format, and widely tracked via KYC, it is then just a small additional step to ban private custody- Game Over.
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I would sell all your coin while you can then.
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Not likely! Transferred most of my liquid savings into Sats over the year after discovering Bitcoin. To hold my savings directly and avoid the parasitic intermediaries that are the banks- Never regretted that decision and tbh surprised and amazed how Bitcoin has survived and thrived and my savings have multiplied...will want to stick with Sats SoV integrity as savings no matter what the fiat parasites do to try to stop it or contain it...and that is why I am discussing it-just want to be able to spend as well as save in the currency free of debasement. Acknowledging the ruthlessness and determination of the most powerful wealthy cartel on the planet (the fiat debt slavery bankers cartel) does not mean I must submit to it. Instead, denying their proven track record of market manipulating price fixing power broking nepotism and anti competitive behaviour is to fail to recognise the nature of the problem and in itself a form of submission more likely to lead to failure than acknowledging it and facing up to it.
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You just sounded a bit fatalistic. Sounds like you aren't. I do not doubt these evil men will stop at nothing but I just think they will fail. I doubt I will live to see it but that's fine with me.
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What gives me fear is the number of people who think it is inevitable and we can just sit back and watch Bitcoin triumph - that seems naive in view of known history around fiat money. Bitcoin provides an alternative to Fiat money and by its design contrasts and highlights the flaws inherent in Fiat... But if enough people do not both recognise this and act on it there is no guarantee Bitcoin will eventually dominate- that is the point of my post. To raise the issues and alert the community to the scale of sly obstruction that has already occurred and its agenda to divert Bitcoin into relatively harmless perception and use as a commodity rather than a P2P MoE. The agenda (including KYC data and ever increasing institutional custody could ultimately provide pretext and the ability to impose a ban on private custody. Let's learn from history E.O. 6102!
If you are using Stacker news, you are actively using bitcoin as medium of exchange. There is plenty of other use cases. like paying for porn, games, vpn, remittance, gift cards markets, etc.
The governments can't do anything about it. We are just to early.
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The current use cases are as you describe and only exist on the very fringes of society and its markets because of the extensive and deliberate obstruction I have detailed above. There is almost zero use at any serious level of retail and wholesale trades. There is no inevitability about wider use developing no matter how much we might want that, as powerful rentseeking bankers have quite a different agenda.
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I think you need to tune your expectations. time frames, dead lines, goals, etc.
Maybe Bitcoin is able to free 5% of humanity, and it takes 50 years and on those 50 years governments ban it and unban it 50 times killing the price 50 times.
Who cares? you are free now, you can use it now, there are ways to live free using bitcoin no matter the government rules, today.
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I hope you are right and yes you are right about SNs- it is one place we can use Sats as a MoE token.
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From what I can tell, SN is the best bitcoin-spending place on the internet. I haven't found anywhere else yet honestly as compelling.
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you have tried bitrefill or joltfun ?
they are all super cool.
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my understanding is that bitrefill just converts the sats into dollars... at SN it's sats to sats, which is what is really appealing to me honestly. Never tried joltfun
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Well, we still in the dollar standard. even in Venezuela or Iran, things are denominated indirectly or direclty in US dollars, the important at this point is to be able to use bitcoin as regular payment method.
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you don't need to hope, what I told you is happening in this very moment. no hope needed.
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