I have been occasionally posting about my peers dipping their toes into bitcoin. Here are two more anecdotes:
- An old friend, politically left wing democrat, just told me he bought a substantial amount of BlackRock'e ETF. He does not have a very large retirement account (<500k USD), and he is very tentative and conservative in his investing strategy. He knows about my commitment to bitcoin. He refuses to listen about self custody, refuses to buy anything but the ETF, and really only wants to know when the price will skyrocket, so he can cash out. He's an otherwise smart guy. I haven't given up on him yet.
- An acquaintance, really the friend of a friend who I have spent a good amount of time with, apparently just got scammed in some kind of phishing scheme. This guy was a programmer for Wang, the old stand alone word processing company, and other companies over the years. He is a lifelong Republican and Trumper. Since his retirement he has been doing his own investing of his large retirement stash. He has done well in tech stocks over the years. He apparently went down the "crypto path" a few years ago. He owned bitcoin, among other shitcoins. I tried to explain why bitcoin is different, and got nowhere. He is quietly arrogant. No one can tell him anything. From what I have pieced together he had recently come to his own decision that bitcoin was best. He didn't self custody, apparently keeping all his bitcoin on coinbase. He got phished, gave log in info out in an email (!), and lost 50k USD worth of bitcoin. I got all of this information second hand. He has announced that the whole crypto world is a scam, and he will never buy any again.
That's it. I'm sure I'll have more stories, and hopefully a few happy endings.
Why do you waste your time and brain cells with them? Is not worth it. Those guys do not deserve to be "saved"...
https://i.postimg.cc/bw6G5G5V/darth-advice-apprentice.jpg
FOCUS ON THE YOUNG ONES and those who truly need and deserve Bitcoin.
I can't give up on my generation. They have most of the fiat.
Forget them. Use their heirs, the young ones.
I did what you did several times and I end up with stress, frustration etc...
So I changed my strategy: I use their kids to approach to Bitcoin.
It works much better.
The old ones will die soon (before hyperbitcoinization), is not worth it. Bitcoin if for young generation, for the brave, not for the weak.
This meme is fucking true... I passed all those "phases".
https://i.postimg.cc/XYQYZNsH/darth-transformation.jpg
50k is not a small amount. After sach loss, how many it possible for someone to have trust. However it was only his fault. How he can share his vital detail to someone.
I lost around that much in a scam in 2022.
Outcome? It made me a bitcoiner. As in, no more shitcoins, and self-custody only.
Great! To commit mistake is the best teacher. We people learn a lot from our failures.
There are no mistakes, there are only learning opportunities :-)
He told his wife. My friend is his wife's cousin! For some of us, our wives would have been the last one to find out how dumb we are.
I was talking about login information.
Yes. That makes sense. I can't imagine that either. I was blinded by the prospect of telling my wife I was such an idiot if it happened to me.
Regarding friend #1, I think its only a matter of time before the pieces finally fall in place for him. His next most important realization is to question "cash out into what?". Once he starts to see that he can 10x every 10 years, he will transition into "living off of bitcoin" (ie. selling what you need when you have an expense) instead of trying to cashout back into fiat.
Yes. Cash out into what? It seems so obvious to us, but in the US the dollar still holds a sacred place in most people's psyches. (I should have left the typo- scared!)
Sacred vs scared, same difference lol
Keep trying, out of every 10 people you recommend Bitcoin, 1 listens to you.
Keep fighting the good fight Siggy.
I feel like I'm running in place. But, one general positive note. Everyone seems much more curious about bitcoin. That can only be good in the long run.
We really truly are early. Or possibly all completely wrong.
That second possibility lingered with me for a long time. Finally it's almost completely gone.
Stacker News is a great place.
I remember you've told the first one in another post already.
The second one here is an eye opener for everyone! 50k in no way a small amount! But, he must have taken it as learning and should listen to you. I've lost very little in a scam in 2019 too and that made me a Bitcoiners after 2 years in 2021. For two years, I've also been thinking like your friend thinks now. So, never give up!
That was a different guy. He is much more of a risk taker. He actually bought more of the ETF when it fell into the low 50s. Unfortunately he also will probably sell if there is a big pump in the next few months.
Thanks for clarifying!
It's not unfortunate, what will he do with the fake money? I think almost everyone who's buying ETFs are gonna sell whenever there's a pump. IMO ETFs have been created for the moneymongers!
You are a true Bitcoiner, who want to help all your acquaintances. Keep it up. Thanks for sharing both stories.
Talk about being right for the wrong reasons...
Exactly!!!
Oof. I understand why the first friend is taking that approach -- if you don't have a lot of retirement capital and you're being conservative, btc does seem like a big risk (especially when you're invested in the fiat mindset). Keeping my fingers crossed for him.
Second one seems a bit tougher. I mean, it should be obvious that the scam wasn't btc or crypto here, but the phishing and the fact that Coinbase doesn't insure deposits. But as you note, he's not one you can tell stuff to.
Also, first time I've thought about Wang in a long time! Used some of their products decades ago.
I wonder if that gigantic office building is still there in Mass? I think they called that area the 128 corridor or something?
It is!
Is it vacant? I can't imagine all that office space being used.
I often suggest paying in Bitcoin to handymen that come to do a job. Recently, a guy told me he is not interested since his friend was scammed out of a cottage (not sure how) by some crypto fraud. Just because of that, he thought Bitcoin is a scam. It is sad.
We buy eggs from an older couple in our neighborhood who have chickens. I kept offering to pay them in bitcoin. They looked at me as if I'm trying to scam them. I stopped trying.
Funny, I actually buy eggs from a local bitcoiner for sats. He's got chickens and is happy to part with the eggs for a few hundred sats.
Their 40 something son has moved back home with them. I might try him directly. It makes so much sense from their standpoint.
That's very unfortunate that he lost his bitcoin because of phishing.
A friend of mine called me, because his father wanted to loan €15000. When he asked what it was for, he said that it was for his bitcoin te be released. It turns out he received an email from Coinbase, stating that he neede to create a self custody wallet on their platform, send all his bitcoin to that address and apparently an extra 15K.
I said this was a scam, but he didn't believe it and became very defensive. After he sent all his bitcoin (5 bitcoin) and the extra 15K, he found out it was a scam. Very very unfortunate. So sad to see this happen to people.
Would it help if there was a website with a collection of bitcoin email scams and a number of points to watch out for (e.g. check the email address)? Just as you explain how to safeguard their recovery phrase you also emphasize bitcoin scams. This should be mandatory for newcomers.
I just received a bitcoin scam claiming to be from Swan Bitcoin where the from address isnt from Swan. If we could collect these emails, I would be happy to setup a website for this.
I wonder if that coinbase scam is the same one my friend of a friend got caught up in? I like your idea about a website.
Too bad that these both cases have nothing to do with Bitcoin, but the old farts being stubborn and refusing to learn... Hope they at least realize that ETF is not a Bitcoin.
Sad to hear the stories like that but its really up to them to wake up. You are being a good friend to assist, but they have to walk the path themselves.
Fret not, I'm right behind you age-wise but I don't think I comprehend the word "retire" I will probably work until I drop..lol
They must walk that road themselves. I'm like you. I sure am working hard for a retired guy.
Fiat-mind virus. As the saying goes, "you can force a donkey to the river, but you can't force it to drink the water."
These two stories are far more than people think. I know countless people that are eager to jump in and buy the ETF, but won't hold actual bitcoin.
Additionally, I know countless people that have seen scams pop up throughout the crypto world, and they conflate this space with scams.
These are important points to be able to counter if you are trying to educate a friend or family member on bitcoin.
Who doesn't want money that appreciates over time? All of the existing currencies depreciate over time.
Bitcoin has to prove itself over time.
2.: Wow...
People have zero clue how the frauds and scams really hurt adoption. Having been scammed myself it hurts me to read this happened to him. Some get burned and are turned off forever while missing an opportunity of a lifetime
doing the lords work @siggy47
never mind friends, I've also quit my job, now I'm more active in learning more about bitcoin, because I don't want to be controlled by people, I'm more comfortable working like this, it's calmer, and now I'm no longer in a rush to go to the office , and now I prefer to sit back and relax discussing the development of bitcoin. only that.
These are great data points to think about. Real people are so much more complicated than the hypothetical ones in our conversations about adoption.
A relative of mine is apparently waiting for some crypto to go to the Moon. He's already up 13x and I'm advising him to sell now, but he has the fiat mindset and lacks any appreciation of underlying value. Fortunately, he has also been in Bitcoin for quite a while.
There are many stories like this.
Hopefully #1 stays in long enough and doesnt panic sell.
One of my old friends, a politically left-wing Democrat, recently bought a substantial amount of BlackRock’s Bitcoin ETF. He doesn’t have a huge retirement account (less than $500k USD) and is very cautious with his investments. Despite knowing about my commitment to Bitcoin, he refuses to consider self-custody and only wants to invest in the ETF. He’s mainly interested in knowing when the price will skyrocket so he can cash out. He’s a smart guy otherwise, so I haven’t given up on him yet.
Yes bro he played smart 🧠 I think he made right decision
An acquaintance, who is a friend of a pal, recently were given scammed in a phishing scheme. This guy was a programmer for Wang and other businesses, and he’s a lifelong Republican and Trump supporter. Since retiring, he’s been dealing with his personal investments and has performed well with tech shares. He ventured into crypto a few years ago, owning Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies. Despite my efforts to provide an explanation for why Bitcoin is exclusive, he didn’t listen. He kept his Bitcoin on Coinbase and were given phished, losing $50k USD well worth of Bitcoin. Now, he believes the complete crypto international is a scam and vows by no means to put money into it once more.