If you had to make the argument that some portion of society that chooses to not have kids is positive for the world or at least net neutral -- what would you say?
620 sats \ 36 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 May
Basically the eugenicist case: If you're a real miserable piece of crap, maybe let someone else's genes propagate into the future.
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42 sats \ 34 replies \ @Natalia 19 May
now do one with Arguments for having kids 😂
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208 sats \ 2 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 May
If you're not a real miserable piece of crap, consider doing humanity a favor and let your genes propagate into the future.
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41 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 19 May
I would support @Undisciplined to be our leader.
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54 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 May
A true hero reluctantly accepts authority when it's thrust upon him.
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180 sats \ 28 replies \ @bief57 19 May
The question is not for me, but I want to speak from my point of view. I have a daughter who I love with all my life and I really don't understand what the advantages of having children are, why do people want to have children? Some say "to have someone to take care of me when I'm old", "to not be alone", "to leave my inheritance", really the first two options are quite sick, having a child is much more than that, but the only thing that It should not be, it is someone to whom you attribute a responsibility that does not belong to them, a child is not obliged to support or take care of you, or at least that should not be their role to come into this world, nor are they the people who are going to fulfill your frustrated dreams. Having children is an act of egocentrism and sex is an evolutionary trap so that we continue reproducing. Why did I reproduce? My contraceptive method failed, and it was my decision as an adult to have her, love her and take care of her, although the first year it cost me my mental health, I was completely unprepared for responsibility, that's why I'm happy every time someone makes that type of decision from the beginning. love, commitment, responsibility and stability, and not because of social pressure. The reasons for not having children are quite easy to describe, but explaining why it is positive to have children is complicated, because you cannot find an answer that does not come from the ego, I will use a cliché phrase, it is true, having children makes you experience love more great thing that you are going to feel in your life, you are going to develop a kind of protection towards another person who is not you, strength to give your best, so that that creature is safe, but once again although it is very nice, yes We see it from a biological point of view, all of this is simply a trap of evolution. I know it takes away the romance when you want to explain how much you love your children.
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79 sats \ 12 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 May
Great answer.
Becoming a parent expands your experience of reality profoundly. It’s essentially living in a higher dimension.
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69 sats \ 11 replies \ @Natalia 19 May
me still exploring 👀 waiting to hear more from those living in a higher dimension.
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82 sats \ 10 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 May
Imagine trying to explain to someone who’s never experienced romantic love why being in a relationship is worthwhile.
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69 sats \ 8 replies \ @bief57 19 May
I would say, try to imagine a new color... this is what loving a child feels like.
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21 sats \ 6 replies \ @Natalia 19 May
hmmmm, I love experimenting with new colors 👀
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 May
Great example
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia 19 May
never try never know!
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69 sats \ 14 replies \ @Natalia 19 May
well said! Unfortunately, most parents in the East think that it's your responsibility to take care of them when they are old, not that I mind, but it felt like an invisible cage somehow, and that would be the last thing I would do to my future kid - kids should be free to live the life they want, parents are meant be there to support and guide.
and this is part of the reasons why I enjoy being around SN, getting to learn from each other:)!
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69 sats \ 8 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 May
Somehow, I simultaneously agree with you both and also think kids should take care of their parents later.
I think that’s because I don’t think this is an acceptable reason for having kids and I think you have to earn that by being a good parent.
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69 sats \ 4 replies \ @Natalia 19 May
That is definitely a BAD reason to have kids, so selfish, then as kids, you should look after your parents when they are getting old for sure, but out of love not forced.
I quite like parenting in Turkey, kids and parents are like friends, always talking and spending time with each other; while it's more authoritarian in Asia, kids generally don't want to share much with their parents; I also like how much freedom kids in the west enjoy but then a bit distant somehow and less supporting.
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33 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 May
I’ve had quite a few Chinese friends and what they describe is definitely not my vision of parenthood.
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42 sats \ 2 replies \ @Natalia 19 May
Maybe learn the best from everywhere!
Letting the kids have the freedom to explore and always be there to talk and support.
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42 sats \ 2 replies \ @bief57 19 May
I don't think it's an obligation, but if my daughter, being an adult and by her own decision, wants to take care of me, well... maybe I've done something right or not, I don't know.
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @Natalia 20 May
indeed, ppl need to be responsible for themselves instead of forcing it onto others, not even parents have the right to do that - kids are not your slaves.
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 20 May
I totally agree, that should not be an obligation. The craziest thing I found out recently is that in the country I am in, it is MANDATORY to pay pension to your parents and if you don't they can sue you. Imagine having suffered parental abandonment and then having to take care of that human being, it is a horror
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69 sats \ 4 replies \ @bief57 19 May
In Latin America they also have that same disastrous thought, mostly from previous generations, at this time there is a lot of information and studies in child psychology and I am happy that a large number of parents of new generations are informing themselves and preparing to parent from love and respect and us from fear and coercion. On this side of the world, if you don't hit and yell at your children, the older generations call you bad parents, but they don't know that discipline can be applied with respect, and they don't understand that not hitting doesn't mean that the child will be a tyrant. impolite. You can explain it to them in a thousand ways but there is no way for them to understand and then they say a phrase that I hate "they hit me and I'm fine" "they broke a broomstick in my back and I'm fine, I'm a professional" and Then you realize that they have traumas, they need therapy, they are people who cannot communicate assertively and only know screams and violence is the only way to resolve situations. This paternity thing is very extensive topics. I am not the perfect mother, I have made mistakes many times but I am aware that I try to break patterns and give the best to my daughter, when my parents made me feel bad in some way I never let them know out of fear, but instead My daughter stands in front of me and with her firm, upset and sad voice she is able to tell me when I gave her unfair treatment and this is because she knows that I will love her without conditions and I apologize to her when she acted wrong, many times. I have gone crazy and I have raised my voice at her and said things that have been hurtful to her. Many of us learned to ask for forgiveness from our children, because they also deserve respect and I always tell my daughter your voice is important and I will support you in whatever you want to do. There is a phrase that I always tell him is: "You can be and do whatever you want, as long as that is not hurting someone or yourself." I like SN for the same reasons, speaking with respect, debating, learning new opinions and valuable information; Quite the opposite of Facebook, Instagram and those types of networks.
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21 sats \ 1 reply \ @IanMalcolmPhd 24 May
this is true and correct.
But also, we don't have good, first-person experienced examples of proper parenting near us. We do have them, but they are in the bible.
Example: my dads was deadbeat (and now that I am an adult, he is a better now due to investing and hard work), mom is mean and cold.
My mom admitted that she was a bad parent, and it's because her dad was as well.
It's really a confluence of everything: fiat food, fiat saving, fiat jobs, fiat everything.
But I have a belief in the future because of my faith. Let other people have kids.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 25 May
Everything becomes a chain of bad examples and habits, which is why it becomes very difficult for the person who wants to change the self-destructive pattern. It is difficult to play the role of father or mother when you did not have a good example of it, this is a delicate situation, there are all types of people, with thousands of different stories, are there parents who do not love their children? Yes, of course, there are parents who love their children but don't know how to show it? Yes too. I am glad that your mother recognizes her setbacks, accepting it is a big step, I hope you are well with her.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 19 May
This really bothers me too, but I try to remind myself that it's probably a coping mechanism. Most of us love our parents and it would be really hard to reconcile that with believing that they were abusive.
Once again, I applaud the heroic choices you've made.
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 19 May
They are our parents and we will never stop loving them. When we become adults we also understand that they did the best they could with the little information they had.
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26 sats \ 1 reply \ @Coinosphere 19 May
The first 3 minutes of the movie Idiocracy made the only case for this that matters.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 19 May
Life increasingly resembles that movie.
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 19 May
I call this the Bill Maher rule.
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100 sats \ 0 replies \ @zuspotirko 19 May
I disagree with them but if you look into the antinatalist subreddit it mostly boils down to doomerism about the future
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489 sats \ 2 replies \ @bief57 19 May
I like that the latest generations consider themselves and ask themselves whether or not they really want to have children, in previous decades the only social goal was to get married and have children, although that will cost your emotional stability, which meant that these unhappy parents will cause emotional and physical damage. to his children. Many of the children that are being born now are truly planned and desired; parents prepare consciously and work hand in hand with health professionals to break childhood patterns and give the best to their children. There are still unwanted or planned pregnancies, of course, but it seems important to me that this has been considerably reduced, also thanks to sexual education and contraceptive methods. Socially, it seems positive to me that people who do not want to have children do not do so, they can focus on their personal projects and many of them contribute to society. We cannot fail to mention overpopulation and scarcity of natural resources, really the less we reproduce the better.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 19 May
It makes me really sad that people believe this.
Material wealth increases with the number of people, because it’s brains that produce wealth.
You did a great heroic thing for humanity when you chose to keep your child. Thank you.
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26 sats \ 0 replies \ @bief57 19 May
"It is better not to be a mother than to be a bad mother." The world needs mentally healthy people, desired and responsible parenthood
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52 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 19 May
I would say if one is dead set on not having kids and would hate their life and their kids if they did have them then it is a net positive that they don't and focus on other things.
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17 sats \ 0 replies \ @TNStacker 19 May
Until I riddened myself of certain youthful demons during my step-sons youth I don't have a natural born child until I was more than ten years past those demons.
Now, I am a wise and thoroughly and enthusiastically emmerced older dad.
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120 sats \ 0 replies \ @wilto 19 May
People without children often have more disposable income and time, which they can invest in their careers, communities, and charitable activities. That means more innovation, volunteer work, and support for public goods. Those who are 100% sure about not wanting kids won't have any regrets, ensuring they lead fulfilling lives on their own terms and contribute positively to society.
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31 sats \ 2 replies \ @riberet19 19 May
I suppose having more income for yourself, having more free time, dedicating your time to other things that you probably like, children take up a lot of time and money, but hey, all of that can give back to you in another way, for example receiving their love and watching them grow is something that is priceless.
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @cryotosensei 20 May
How is your diary writing coming along? xP
Your comment reminds me of the Yiddish word naches, the joy parents derive from raising adults
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @riberet19 20 May
For now I only wrote a few notes and reflections haha, seeing the children grow up is the best thing you can experiment, you know it yourself well.
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @k00b 19 May
They don't want them.
I wouldn't judge someone for not wanting them, but I wouldn't argue someone shouldn't have them either. I'd be more likely to argue that people should have kids, but even then I wouldn't. I will argue when I think people's arguments against having children amount to more than "I don't want them," because usually they don't want them but feel the need to lie about why.
Generic advice requires overwhelming evidence.
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5 sats \ 4 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 19 May
We are living on a dying hell planet, coercing life into this torturous existence is deeply unethical.
Yes, I regret every day that my parents forced me into existence.
I believe in the voluntary human extinction movement. Stop breeding, let humanity die out.
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10 sats \ 2 replies \ @Kontext 20 May
BTW. Perhaps this is useful: #521959
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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 20 May
Thanks, I appreciate this
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Kontext 20 May
No worries, glad to be of service!
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Kontext 20 May
Life is what you make of it. Stop convincing yourself (or letting others convince you) that you are a victim. You are not.
In addition, life is suffering, yes. But you get to choose what you suffer FOR. It is meaningless, but you get to find & choose your meaning. I truly hope you find yours.
☮️ & 🧡
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5 sats \ 4 replies \ @OT 19 May
I used to say that it was a pretty f$cked up world to bring a human into. Luckily I either grew out of that or changed my mind.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 19 May
The world hasn’t really gotten better, you simply ignore the decay for your own means.
It’s still a fucked up world getting more fucked up year by year.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @OT 19 May
That maybe so, but I have a lot of hope for my kids in a world run on bitcoin. Its well worth having kids. It changes everything. Wish we'd had more.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 19 May
While a Bitcoin-based economy would be advantageous for you and I, it would be vastly more difficult for 99% of the world. This means more war, more inequality, more violence for those non-coiners.
Children cost significant resources, and you are unlikely to see a Bitcoin denominated return on investment.
Why pay for more mouths to feed when you can buy more Bitcoin (before it is impossible to trade from fiat?)
Why do you want more children?
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 20 May
Sounds like you don’t have any kids. Right?
I get it… I thought the same way until around 40. I changed my mind and have not regret it. It changes everything. Yes I’ll have less bitcoin, but if it really is what it is meant for they’ll only need 1/10th of what I’ll need (and their kids 1/100th). I’d like to think that they will be raised well, know and pursue their passion and be successful WITHOUT bitcoin, but it’s too early to know.
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 20 May
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Akg10s33 3 Jun
I think it is not positive... humanity needs to continue reproducing... there are countries in Europe and other places where they are paying people to go live and fill those places because there are no inhabitants... it is a quite complex issue but The truth is that humanity needs to continue growing in order to advance.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @coric_helena 1 Jun
Maybe we're selfish as everyone says, maybe its just not for us.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @IanMalcolmPhd 24 May
We don't have good, first-person experienced examples of proper parenting near us. We do have them, but they are in the bible.
Example: my dads was deadbeat (and now that I am an adult, he is a better now due to investing and hard work), mom is mean and cold.
My mom admitted that she was a bad parent, and it's because her dad was as well.
It's really a confluence of everything: fiat food, fiat saving, fiat jobs, fiat everything.
But I have a belief in the future because of my faith. Let other people have kids.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @02bcd3eeb0 20 May
I would say the great human drive is to send a part of yourself into the future so that you live on after death.
Kids is the easiest way to do this, but not the only way. Consider people who have fundamentally advanced our understanding of the universe around us.
For some people there can be more important/satisfying things to devote your life to than kids.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SatsMate 20 May
If you think the country will grow worse and there won't be opportunities for them - maybe its best not to have them. I think its worth a shot, and having a kid gives us hope for the future generations.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 19 May
Not everyone is meant to have kids.
Its good to eliminate bad genes from the gene pool.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @jgbtc 19 May
All the blue-haired, woke, gender fluid people are doing us a favor by not reproducing. But they should keep their nose out of people's business who choose to have kids.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 19 May
And breeders are doing us a favor by wasting their resources and life energy on sustaining more life, rather than stacking more sats. Children do not yield more Bitcoin. Only proof of work yields Bitcoin.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @lv99slacker 19 May
Kids annoy the fuck out of me, and I'm a selfish bastard. I would make a terrible parent. Not everyone is fit to raise decent people. That's my argument.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cristaiji 19 May
Population is declining in most countries at this point which I think is very very bad. Due to excess deaths and not enough children being born.
However if I was nihilistic and basically hated humanity then I might be pleased? 🤷♂️
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 19 May
The continuation of the species is important we don't know where humanity will go and what it will face so genetic diversity is important to safegaurd against it in a macro sense, but i think if I were to make a case against it, i'd say
If you feel you couldn't provide for them or have no desire to take responsiblity for them, I suppose would be the primary reasoning, or maybe the country you're in would condemn them to a life you feel would be horrible
Monks, Priests and nuns don't have kids and that has been the case for many years, no one is saying that they are selfish, they just have chosen a different cause to devote their lives to and find meaning, and they also provide a service communities final valubale.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @justin_shocknet 19 May
There's no valid argument for it, there are only deceptions from the great deceiver.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ZezzebbulTheMysterious 19 May
There are plenty of valid arguments for not having children. Who is the great deceiver?
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Signal312 19 May
I'm not going to go there. The birth rate is plummeting, with serious consequences.
Are you trying to convince yourself, or someone else? Why?
Also - I believe that MOST people who have been propagandized/influenced to NOT have kids end up regretting it.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Lumor 19 May
Smart people with the wrong ideas checking out of the gene pool might slow the speed of progress somewhat by preventing the average IQ from rising too quickly?
They do get extra time to work on progress however.
Maybe it makes progress a little less exponential than it otherwise would be.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fabs 19 May
It's positive in the sense that they don't contribute to the total populace, and thus, reduce the overall number of (possible) consumers.
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