22 sats \ 29 replies \ @Undisciplined OP 26 Mar \ parent \ on: Squatters Rights? libertarian
That's why I think the presumption needs to be on the side of whoever owns the property.
If they say someone is trespassing, then the law should initially recognize their right to remove the person. If the removed person can show that they were wrongfully evicted, then the property owner can be held liable.
One of the big problems here is that there's no prospect of compensation for the victims of these home invaders. They have no assets for the owner to go after, so it's all just costs on top of costs for the victims.
Well....what about the concept of a valid contract?
If you as owner willingly signed a lease with someone allowing them to stay in your house for 6 months, can you just break that contract at month 2?
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You have to file a formal complaint with the sheriff. If sheriff can verify your complaint, he sends officer to remove squatter
Owner must pay sheriff civil eviction fee plus any additional for keeping the peace
There is also a penalty for a false complaint or illegitimate removal
So it’s not call the police and they can remove
The bill first passed the Florida house in November.
The actual bill , pdf copy, is available at the bottom of the page I linked
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This makes more sense. Obviously this will take some time for them to verify everything.
Owner must pay sheriff civil eviction fee plus any additional for keeping the peace
Thats a curious bit, I understand that generally in normal evictions there may be a fee since its a civil procedure (ie contract dispute).
However, this is criminal trespassing. There is no "violation of contract terms" its no different than theft. Do robbery victims need to pay a fee to get the sheriff to arrest the aggressor?
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It’s like a high deductible insurance policy.
To deter false complaints
My 2 cents
You’re right it’s criminal trespassing
The statute seems like an acceleration of the eviction process. Bypass judge and go straight to sheriff
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I would also assume that legally you could recoup that fee from the trespasser. Of course, practically, you'll never get it from them.
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There is also a penalty for a false complaint or illegitimate removal
That's an important piece. Once that's in place, the cops should just take the landlords word and remove the occupants.
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It's good they're taking action, but this problematic clause is still in the bill
The individual is not a current or former tenant in a legal dispute.
My understanding of the issue is that people are falsely claiming to be tenants, so they need to adjudicate that somehow.
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Yes, I'm actually confused by the FL bill as it doesn't seem to actually solve the problem in any meaningful way (Trespassing is already illegal - you can already call cops to deal with trespassers).
The problem is when cops arrive and squatters produces a official looking doc showing that they are a tenant. Its not the job of street cops to validate / adjudicate such issues - thus it will fall to the courts (e.g. expect a few months delay).
I think Desantis is just posturing for political points by pushing a bill that doesn't really do anything new but restate what is already existing law.
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How does one prove he is a legitimate tenant?
Copy of a lease is one way
Driver license showing current address
Recent utilities and gas bill
Renters insurance policy
DMV registration
Run a background check on tenant or squatter
Why is this complicated?
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Why is this complicated?Driver license showing current address
There is no law that states you need to have a drivers license to rent a house
For everything else, imagine photoshops of said docs.
Again street cops have neither the power nor the ability to authenticate such things.....without some sort of failproof way to authenticate valid contracts this will continue to exist.
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License plate verification if squatter has a car
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The DMV doesn't actually verify your address, so you could easily say you live in the house you're squatting in.
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Police can check if a license plate is valid or active or car is stolen, delinquent on traffic tickets etc
Squatters are making fake lease agreements and you can switch utilities to your name without actually living somewhere. You can also put down someone else's address when you set up billing for all kinds of services.
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You can check court records if there is pending litigation
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A renter can verify keys 🔐
Landlord and tenant have matching keys.
A squatter will have different keys or no keys.
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There would be no way to verify that the landlord is showing the right keys, though.
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You can, but you'd owe them damages.
My point is that the law has to make a presumption about who to side with. It's too complicated to expect a cop to adjudicate these messes on the spot, so they're either going to presume the tenant is legit or that they're trespassing.
The undisputed owner of the property is claiming the person is trespassing, so that's the reasonable place to start.
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You can, but you'd owe them damages.
So you need to pay the squatters to get them to leave?
The undisputed owner of the property is claiming the person is trespassing, so that's the reasonable place to start.
How does the average cop verify if someone is trespassing? Renter has a piece of paper with lease terms on it, supposedly signed by owner.
The point I'm trying to get to, is that this entire problem lays with the inability to authenticate contracts.
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I'm saying that if you wrongfully evict a tenant, not a squatter, you would owe them damages, but you are presumed to have the right to remove people from your property.
The reason this needs to be the presumption, is precisely because the cops can't verify if the person is trespassing. The presumption needs to be on the side of the owner.
There will always be contract disputes, so there will always need to be a presumption of who's right while they get sorted out. The only reasonable presumption is to side with the owner.
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If the state (cops) automatically take sides of owner then that basically ends the purpose of a contract, since it offers almost no practical protection to a renter....
The bigger problem here is DoS-ing the legal system. Sure the police can evict someone today, but the same thing will happen tomorrow and the same squatter will do it elsewhere. It doesn't take much to grind the entire system to a halt....
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Private solution exists.
Hire a professional to shoot and kill squatter
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that basically ends the purpose of a contract
I disagree. The owner has something to lose in civil court and damages could be severe for contract breeches. If the cops don't evict tenants who aren't paying their rent, the exact same argument could be made about ending the purpose of a contract. Maybe that's part of your point though.
The bigger problem here is DoS-ing the legal system.
I agree and part of what bothers me about this issue is that the solution is pretty clear and very ugly. People will start violently reclaiming their homes from squatters and the likelihood that invading someone's home will get you killed will act as the deterrent.
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