Give the dead horse another whack \ stacker news ~meta

3667 sats \ 50 comments \ @siggy47 19 Sep 2023 meta

I'll bring this up one more time:

Link Posts

I really think link posts can be made more valuable if the OP is given some ability to direct the conversation beyond what is available now. I know the problem. No one wants to reward a thoughtless post that seems like it's just sat fishing. As a result we ignore worthy news items or topics that should be discussed. Just a line or two of comment with the link might spur great conversation.

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906 sats \ 25 replies \ @k00b 19 Sep 2023

I feel like I’m in the minority, but I value people sourcing high quality links. Starting a discussion around them is more valuable but nothing is preventing that, so I’m not sure what is being proposed.

Do we want to require people have commentary on something they share? How do we enforce their commentary is coherent? Voting? Isn’t that what we already do absent the requirement?

This feels mostly like an education thing rather than a law we should have. If we want the discussion we should start one or encourage the OP to start one … otherwise they’re already punished by you all not zapping it.

So questions …

Is adding another form field to the link post going solve this behavior?

Is the lack of this field what is actually preventing commentary or might it be something else?

523 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 19 Sep 2023

Doesn't need to be a requirement. Best path would be for people to tip the heck out of those that provide quality links with a short synopsis and don't tip link only posts at all.

660 sats \ 22 replies \ @nemo 19 Sep 2023

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312 sats \ 20 replies \ @ek 19 Sep 2023

Actually, this is a better compromise than what I proposed above except it should be optional. This might just make the UX around adding your own thoughts to a link better so more people use it.

Additionally, this would make (if we want that) adding a tag to a link post so people can immediately if the OP shared his thoughts easier. The tags depends if something was added to that text input during sharing the link.

361 sats \ 19 replies \ @k00b 19 Sep 2023

I think part of the disagreement is that I'm pretty sure we all hate form fields more than we think we do.

"Just stick another hurdle in my way. I don't mind." Ya shure about that?

344 sats \ 8 replies \ @siggy47 OP 19 Sep 2023

I would defer to you on this, because I have seen in the past SN items I was sure I wanted that I never used once I got it. I can't find the post now, but a while back I actually tried what I thought of as a hybrid post, where I made a discussion post, started the message body with a link, and then added my thoughts. It didn't work too well, but maybe I should have tried a few more.

361 sats \ 7 replies \ @k00b 19 Sep 2023

Don't defer! Rebel! I'm going to be wrong. You're going to be wrong. But we don't know until we discuss it. Courts don't only have judges. :)

344 sats \ 6 replies \ @siggy47 OP 19 Sep 2023

And I'm a goddamn lawyer, too. I should know better! But, I see you're point about mandatory forms. What about an optional comment? It would make users like me who typically ignore pure link posts pause?

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @k00b 19 Sep 2023

Comments are already optional but I know that's not what you mean. You mean something attached to the post in a singular way.

We could give it a shot. My intuition says it isn't the option to comment that's lacking. I think it's the motivation, desire, or even ability to comment that's lacking.

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277 sats \ 9 replies \ @nemo 19 Sep 2023

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444 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Sep 2023

I guess we could add a collapsed text form field to link posts.

Currently, we are even penalizing OPs who comment their own link post (like @hn, lol) since you then have to pay again. Additionally, I think I even noticed while working on @hn that the link post costs 1 sat and then the first comment costs 10 sats. So it's 11x as expensive currently, lol

179 sats \ 7 replies \ @k00b 19 Sep 2023

do we hate typing into this form field?

It's not the typing. This comment thread isn't the context of someone who is submitting a link. Product design is about embodying the appropriate context at every step.

I agree it might be worth experimenting with given everyone's feelings around it. My intuition says this is better implemented as a gentle nudge/reminder, e.g. "posts with a thoughtful comment by the OP earn 300% more sats on average."

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @nemo 19 Sep 2023

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0 sats \ 5 replies \ @ek 19 Sep 2023

I agree it might be worth experimenting with given everyone's feelings around it.

Yep, maybe hide a text input field for a first comment in options?

I think we shouldn't at least penalize OPs commenting their links with an additional fee of 10 sats (just confirmed locally on 654ecaf)

179 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 19 Sep 2023

or make an exception in the spam interval for this - probably required even with the optional text input field

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 19 Sep 2023

Yes, good idea.

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @0fje0 19 Sep 2023

...perhaps a worthy experiment to consider?

In my opinion: definitely.

344 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Sep 2023

I feel like I’m in the minority, but I value people sourcing high quality links.

Feel the same. I don't need to read what other people think about something before checking it out myself. it's possibly even better if I can make up my mind without any possible bias beforehand. If OPs start a discussion about the link it's a nice extra but I think the main content is the link itself.

One compromise I just came up with is to show if the first comment in a link post is a comment by the OP itself. Like a tag. But also not sure about this. This imo only makes sense if people really don't click on a link post unless the OP commented. Since we can already see if there are already comments.

655 sats \ 2 replies \ @Wumbo 19 Sep 2023

For the sake of discussion I will offer up a different perspective.

TLDR: Not every thing needs someone's comments.

In this macro environment where people want/judge a how successful a post is by the level of engagement (click, likes, reaffirming comments). Stacker News offers us another way, Sats. If it provides value it will likely get rewarded with some Sats (I know I am Captain Obvious with this statement)

Some links are just a heads up about a news event. Good recent Example: #258136

I Just wanted to add my comment to "spur on great conversation"

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 19 Sep 2023

I also want to point out that it goes the other way too, which IMO isn't good either. Once in a while I will post a link just because I think it's really important. In those cases there are times when I get way more sats than I deserve. That's probably because I'm more well known at this point. Your average new account posting the same thing might get completely ignored. That's not right either. Both of us need to prove our work by showing why the link is important.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 19 Sep 2023

That's probably because I'm more well known at this point. Your average new account posting the same thing might get completely ignored.

Not sure why this should be the case? I can only see how this could be the case if your posts are somehow more visible than posts of new accounts (ignoring freebie posts).

But afaict, this is not the case? (Also ignoring existing subscribers of your posts)

360 sats \ 2 replies \ @carlosfandango 19 Sep 2023

Once again… I couldn’t agree more. Link + comment = engagement. The OP must have had a reason for posting it….

20 sats \ 1 reply \ @siggy47 OP 19 Sep 2023

At least enough space for a @carlosfandango haiku, no?

179 sats \ 0 replies \ @carlosfandango 19 Sep 2023

Absolutely!

341 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 19 Sep 2023

Is even worse... now we are seeing posts where the statement/question is just one line in the title with no other explanation, opinion or whatever.

340 sats \ 0 replies \ @Ksjznxnxkxksn 19 Sep 2023

Yup, adding a sentence or two and not just a plain link would show more weigh to the post, also the intended message or information would be more understandable

344 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 19 Sep 2023

Another point regarding this is that I don't experience this at all:

As a result we ignore worthy news items or topics that should be discussed.

Are there cases where people ignored worthy news items because the OP didn't start a discussion?

Another point is that I think that the links which indeed did not require commentary are just ignored here. Imo, most links don't benefit much from commentary.

For example - sorry to pick you out here @siggy47 - but I think you did not have to add anything to following link posts:

(basically just search for link posts with a high amount of sats)

Is this some confirmation bias of mine? Am I not searching for the right items which disprove me? I am really struggling to understand where this sentiment is coming from.

Additionally, the thought process of posting links is imo the decision to post the link at all, not how you comment the link.

182 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 19 Sep 2023

I agree. Those were the type of posts I was referring to where I think I was overcompensated. It's true that those posts did generate valuable discussion, but I think they may be the exceptions that prove the rule.

344 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bitman 19 Sep 2023

Perhaps show us a good example to explain your case Sig?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 19 Sep 2023

Are you looking for the case of an ignored link post?

180 sats \ 0 replies \ @kr 19 Sep 2023

good point, have felt the same way a few times myself

179 sats \ 0 replies \ @nemo 19 Sep 2023

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179 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitman 19 Sep 2023

I know what you're saying here.

I'd prefer a little inkling of what the piece is about rather than just a link which I'm usually averse on clicking on.

It could be down to people trying to be first so as not to post a dupe. I dislike sat farmers too - but this is a possibility.

Maybe a subtle change in SN's posting 'mechanism' could be in order too?

179 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 19 Sep 2023

Totally agree.

179 sats \ 0 replies \ @birdeye21 19 Sep 2023

I felt this on my day 1. I refused to let myself post a link lol

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @AR0w 20 Sep 2023

What about pinned op comment ? @ekzyis

20 sats \ 4 replies \ @nullama 20 Sep 2023

You can do that by doing a discussion post with a link inside.

To me it's quite nice how it currently is, either you have a direct link, or you have a discussion. I don't see the need to add anything else.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 OP 20 Sep 2023

I have tried that in the past. It never seems to work for me. I'll try again.

20 sats \ 2 replies \ @nullama 20 Sep 2023

What do you mean by it doesn't work?

A discussion post is just text, like this, and you can add the link (or multiple links) in the discussion, anywhere you like, for example here and here

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 20 Sep 2023

Here's what I was talking about: #213184

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 20 Sep 2023

Yes, it can be done. What I meant was that I wasn't able to drum up a decent discussion. @blocktok articulated it better than I can

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout 19 Sep 2023

On average I like link posts with comments more than I like content posts...