478 sats \ 19 replies \ @nullcount 14 Sep 2023 \ on: We should all try and be more self sufficient and eco friendly. meta
Self sufficiency and using less energy are at odds. Thru division of labor and specialisation we create efficiencies in production that are unachievable thru self sufficiency.
You will use 10x the water, energy, and time to produce 1 potato than it costs to let the market produce that potato for you.
This. Division of labor and specialization, especially reducing the labor input required for agriculture, is what civilization is built off of. We wouldn't have bitcoin if we didn't have mass produced agriculture.
That being said, I can't agree with some of your later comments. You seem to put too much emphasis on the market value of a person's time... but there are many things that aren't priced by the market that can guide a person's actions. For example, there is enormous social benefit to growing your own food and gifting it to neighbors. Not everything should be evaluated based on the market value of the opportunity cost.
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Most gardeners have a system to collect natural rain water for the crop. As for energy used, it can be fun to do and is a hobby for gardners so we don't mind spending time working in our gardens and of course the sun gives out energy for free.
I find it really odd for someone to try and discourage simple home growing.
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If its a hobby or it gives you spiritual feelings to play in dirt, then by all means go ahead. But to most people, it looks like work. Work with very little reward.
I take issue with the people who say gardening saves money. It could be true that seeds are cheaper than finished produce. But even if your dirt, water, and fertilizer are free, you will spend more time and effort and opportunity cost getting those seeds to ripen, than if you just purchased them at market.
You could spend that time gardening to build a business or even take a second job and be much more effective with your energy.
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There's a critical assumption in what you said that is false.
you will spend more time and effort and opportunity cost getting those seeds to ripen, than if you just purchased them at market
Many homegrown varieties of produce are not available in stores, because the commercial varieties are chosen for traits like durability and appearance, rather than flavor and nutrition. You are certainly welcome to maintain that those quality differences aren't worth the effort, but obviously many people think they are.
Personally, I tend to grow things that are expensive, perishable, or often out-of-stock, while relying on the division of labor to provide staple goods at low prices.
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If you are actually able to grow something profitably, consider making a business of it. Congrats! You found something to specialize in! Your neighbors are better off buying from you than growing themselves.
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That's not at all the point. If I have a tomato plant on my deck and the store is out of tomatoes, then I still get to have some tomatoes on my sandwich.
Also, see the point about commercial vs garden produce traits. An activity can have very poor returns to scale without being unprofitable.
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If you value having redundancy enough, then yes, being self sufficient can be worthwhile. Most people would probably just forgo the tomato or substitute it until the market has resupplied. Likewise for valuing nutrition. It can make self sufficiency worthwhile, but most will seek nutrition from supplements rather than backyard gardens.
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You're obviously correct about what most people do, but most people are also pretty unhealthy and the point of advice is that people have room for improvement, so it's not really relevant what they currently do.
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Is not about how much effort and energy you put in... is a whole more than just that.
Do it yourself and we can talk later.
You are talking from the perspective of a "city boy".
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Just saying you'd have to do a lifetime of weatherproofing, wearing layers of clothes indoors, or carpooling to undo the inefficiencies you've created by choosing to grow your own produce for a single season.
Energy-scarcity-minded Environmentalists who promote Self sufficiency are deluded
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If only there was a downvote button...
I've never seen anyone say that growing veg using natural resources is bad for the environment, this makes no sense.
Water comes from the sky, solar comes from the sky, you can reuse and make your own compost yearly. This is bad for the environment how?
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I never said its bad for environment. Just that you will waste so much money that other money saving techniques like carpooling will likely not offset the deficit.
I mean humans used to have agricultural society where everyone had to be self sustainable and people were poor AF and starved to death any time there was a drought or long winter.
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man, same people would say that milk is coming from the grocery store... and the cows are polluting the planet.
They have no idea how is to grow plants and what and how to eat healthy.
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I think you piled on a guy for nothing.
He's just saying that homegrown stuff takes more energy than mass-produced crap due to the economy of scale. Does it mean we should all buy crap instead? Absolutely not, but pretending that homegrown saves the planet specifically by using less energy (which is not even how it works, we need MORE energy produced and used, not less) is delusional.
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Thanks. I swear common sense is more scarce than bitcoin these days.
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Experienced this first hand. Crazy how much water a few tomato plants need, for a relatively meager return. As a hobby it's fun, but that's about it I guess.
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It's worth it. Homegrown tomatoes and store-bought aren't even in the same ballpark
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Have to admit the taste was amazing.
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It seems some people like to water tomatoes and some like to wash their garbage. Crazy how being wasteful with fresh water is encouraged by environmentalists.
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