I was thinking about the whole Wasabi fiasco. And then I basically got the idea that lightning transactions to a blue wallet lightning wallet and out of it is basically the same as mixing/coinjoin. From the outside the transactions are indistinguishableable from which account got which payment, right? Since it's all in one big lightning node.
I have not enough knowledge about analysing lightning the same way onchain transactions can be traced. Am I correct? Is this enough to wash sats and let them disappear in the void?
yes. the difference is that all of these swap services and custodial wallets may log details of user activity and be used as means to identifying users but you are correct that the utxo you receive is different than the one you deposit if you go back on chain later
And keep in kind an aspect that few users pay attention: through a 1M sats LN channel (just an example) you can pass through 1000x times more sats. Actually there's no limit.
Just by using a private channel and/or trampoline and you have magnitude of privacy that you can't achieve with other tools.
But yes, not many users know how to use this method.
I am actually happy that chain analysis are busy with coinjoin/whirlpools/etc meanwhile LN is doing its thing... in silence. :)
when lightning was emerging as a feasible network the founder of electrum referred to it not as a payment network but as a dark network
....and I use a lot electrum with LN trampoline channels. Very good tool.
yes electrum is one of the most unsung lightning implementations. not only is it a completely independent python implementation it is a great desktop client
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In regards of using LN for losing trace of your sats I wrote these 2 guides:
Alternatives directly on LN, privately, fast
⚡️ RoboSats - P2P Full private Exchange over Tor, LN escrow (HODL invoice)
⚡️ https://t.me/lnp2pBot - Telegram bot buy/sell P2P through LN
⚡️ https://t.me/BitcoinVoucherBot - Azte.co Telegram Bot buy BTC on LN
Here also you have a comparison guide about all LN wallets
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KYC exchange > Muun lightning wallet > Muun lightning wallet to BTC address.
Total cost to do this is usually less than $2. I’m lucky though as the exchange allows lightning withdrawals. Shout out to Bitaroo in Australia.
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Yes, I came to a similar conclusion about Liquid as a mixing service, here are my notes:
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What you describe is how fedimints / chaumian mints work.
https://fedimint.org/
it is not how current custodial wallets work today, but i would hope that all custodial wallets become chaumian mints in the future.
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I agree with the sentiments about using Lightning and Liquid for this purpose. I see coin mixing services as outdated with surveillance technology catching up and believe that the Wasabi drama is the beginning of the end for all of them. The arguments I'm now seeing on Twitter in favor of coin mixing services are a mix (pun intended) of fear-mongering and personal attacks. That's always a sign of a failing enterprise.
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