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0 sats \ 5 replies \ @hynek OP 18 Jan 2023 \ parent \ on: 🤷 What if a lot of people really want to use bitcoin permission-less? bitcoin
Partially it does. Phoenix Wallet opens channel for you.. But if we assume that on-chain capacity is quite limited? It will be still very costly..
A 1 time cost to have an open channel. How expensive are you expecting on-chain to be?
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It's not one time only.. you will need to increase or close that channel later.. Nobody has constant value across whole life :-)
If we want to onboard basically everyone.. it's seems currently impossible without increasing the space in blocks.. So the costs would be prohibitive.
But maybe there is some other idea how to approach that. And that is purpose of this discussion to find it :-)
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You can keep a channel open even if its empty and continue to receive with it.
Actually you know I don't expect people to store their life savings on ln either. I'd anticipate them to ln to on-chain swap to cold storage, but those funds should be used pretty infrequently.
I mean so far we've seen improvement after improvement where txs are smaller and smaller and therefore cost less and less.
I remember when people used to worry that ln would mean the death of on-chain tx fees and therefore the death of mining and therefore the death of Bitcoin. Now I see you speculating the other way around. So can we just wait until we run into a real problem rather than speculating on problems that don't exist causing us to chase our tails?
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You are right.. I believe that we will find solution.. But even current development should consider the probability of further potential ways..
And we should beware that some custodial solutions do not prevail...
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I agree with that. I hate the custodial stuff. Custodial transactions even in mainstream Bitcoin adoption is a fail condition to me.
Its just that we should be building solutions to experienced problems and right now on-chain fees are not an experienced problem. Even when fees are temporarily high, as long as you have an ln channel you don't have to worry about it.
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