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66 sats \ 11 replies \ @fiatbad 12h \ on: LN Payouts On Ocean Pool? bitcoin_Mining
I don't think there are any "customs" with regards to the Lightning Network.
Opening a channel is entirely up to you. You pay a single on-chain fee now in order to save Ocean from having to pay 5 Sats every time they send you a payment. It probly costs about 500 Sats to open a channel now. So, it will take about 100 transactions to justify the channel cost. (500/5 = 100).
Wait a minute. It just occurred to me that when you open a channel to them, 100% of the liquidity will be on your side of the channel. So, they won't be able to make payments to you on that channel until you spend an equal amount of Sats ON that channel (to move liquidity to their side). In other words, opening a channel to them is useless until you rebalance or spend.
It also just occurred to me that my entire comment is pretty much just rambling and offering no value. If you're new to Lightning, I probly just confused the shit out of you, and if you're not new then I just bored you with shit you already knew.
I enjoyed monitoring your brain working in real time! I didn't like the choice of the word "customary" either when I wrote it. Yes, there would be no liquidity on their side, which I thought of. I have enough incoming anyway for the anticipated tiny payouts coming from them (until I build my giant farm😀). The problem is the node I'm using is small, with only private channels, and I'm worried about the payments finding a route. The point might be moot, since they don't seem to list an identifiable lightning node, which I guess means they're not looking to get inundated with tiny channels being opened.
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On my node, I have a large channels open to merchants, friends, and family that I have set up on their own self-custodial nodes. Most of the liquidity for these is on my side, but it allows the external world to connect to them without them having to worry about liquidity issues. I manage it, and it's only a handful so it's not hard.
Then, I have a few other very large channels open to major central hubs. Payments through such hubs never fail. I receive my mining payouts through them, and they usually stay relatively balanced because I'm constantly spending and receiving.
Critics of LN say that it centralizes to these hub-and-spoke models. They're correct, and it sucks.
However, I'm connected to a handful of such "hubs". No single one has total control. Half of the hubs I connect to are on the other side of the planet. So, even with this hub-and-spoke model, it's 100x better than the current banking systems. I'm still self-custodial, and I have options if one of them decides to turn into a bad-actor or becomes state-captured. LN critics grasp at straws. LN is baddass.
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Your node sounds almost exactly like my LND node, which I have had going for about 3 1/2 years.
I just started messing with a small CLN node, and coincidentally that fits best with Ocean. I'm also trying to connect my CLN as an external SN wallet, but I haven't managed that yet.
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The 'implementation' matters because LND does not currently support Bolt 12.
LND supports native wrapped invoices (great for privacy) and Core Lightning supports Bolt 12 (also great for privacy) and great for recurring small payments like with Ocean.
I really wish Ocean would support LNAddresses like Brains currently does... it makes small repeated payouts basically offline practical and easy.
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I don't know the answer. I didn't think it mattered either. With Ocean, you need to set up a Bolt 12 offer, and the CLN gui allows you to do that. Still, I don't see why they don't think LND will work. Here's a quote from their site:
Due to our use of Core Lightning (CLN) and the experimental nature of BOLT12, it is best to use CLN as your node. At the time of writing, only CLN is known to work, but we will update this documentation as more compatible implementations of BOLT12 become available.
It doesn't make sense to me as long as you have Bolt 12, but I'm certain they know more than I do.
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Ah, actually that makes sense.
LN development moves MUCH faster than Bitcoin Core. There are some protocol upgrades that CLN may have that LND does not.... and vise-versa.
I was super bullish on what Bolt 12 had to offer when it was in development. Can't wait to see it in the wild.
Would you know by any chance... if there's another way to accept Ocean payouts? I know that Phoenix wallet integrates Bolt 12 but I don't know if there's any way to integrate it into Ocean.
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