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68 sats \ 16 replies \ @SimpleStacker 5 Mar \ on: What would you consider a fair wage to be for a teacher? AskSN
I wouldn't say they are grossly underpaid. Entry level salaries aren't too bad. And they get a lot of job security and pensions that other people don't get, and they get very long vacations compared to most professions.
I think the bigger issue is that the actually good teachers, the ones who are "high agency" like the tech-bros like to say, can't really get rewarded for that agency. The compensation gradient is leveled artificially by public monies and unionization. If you really want to be rewarded financially for effort and talent, you cannot do so in a teaching career unless you go and start your own school or something.
Also, because of this, in cities full of highly compensated professionals, like NY, SF, and LA, teachers feel like they are poor among their similarly-educated peer group. Another reason for talented people to not want to go into teaching.
The other element I'd add to what you're saying is that the job doesn't need to be as unpleasant as it currently is. Much of the aggravation teachers feel is because they're required to put up with egregiously bad behavior from students. Better administration, with an eye on fostering a good learning environment would make teaching a much more pleasant and rewarding job.
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I hear just as bad behavior from parents too.
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Yes, and highly correlated with the bad student behavior. If administrators had the teachers' backs more often, it would actually be a very attractive job at the current rate of pay.
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I still think they're underpaid for the level of education required.
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Education degrees are by far the easiest to attain, so you have to deflate their value accordingly. Then, as others have noted, you have to account for the numerous non-monetary benefits of the job.
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Do they cost less to attain? If not, it's kind of moot imo. They still have to invest as much into their education.
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How much they cost is irrelevant. That's a reason not to pursue it, not a justification for higher pay.
The strongest reason to pay them less is that teachers have very little to show for themselves. We have decades of very detailed data on education and future life outcomes. There's arguably no evidence to think teachers are making a positive difference. Outcomes are entirely explained by things like home environment and demographics.
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There's evidence that exceptional teachers cover more material than poor ones.
I'd think the argument would be to make the schooling more rigorous to become a teacher, not pay them less...
If you just compare the terminal degree (e.g. masters degree), that would be true. But I wouldn't necessarily call a "MA in Education" an actual education.
(Sorry, I know a lot of teachers who have Masters in Educations, and even some Ed.D's, but I'm going on the record and calling out your training!!)
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There's ample evidence that education students have the lowest scholarly aptitudes on average.
Everyone, including the teachers I know personally, knows that ed programs are a joke.
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I also find it interesting that the Ed.D's are usually the ones that insist on being called "Doctors".
I'm surrounded by PhDs, in real disciplines, and none of us insist on being called "doctor"
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Yeah, I've noticed that the insistence on being called "Doctor" varies inversely with the rigor of the discipline.
I have known a couple of mathematicians and physicists who are so intellectually impressive that I was actually more comfortable calling or referring to them as Dr. so-and-so. That was before I was a Dr. So-and-so myself, though.