The more things change... \ stacker news ~bitcoin

pull down to refresh

1086 sats \ 26 comments \ @siggy47 17 Feb bitcoin

I'm reading Bitcoin Billionaires and the Winklevoss twins are criticing Roger Ver and Charlie Shrem's anti government views.

Cameron says this back in 2013:

"we’re trying to mainstream Bitcoin. We don’t want it to be some kind of circus novelty riding on fringe ideology. If this is going to be gold 2.0, it has to appeal to everyone. Investment banks aren’t going to set up trading desks for an asset marketed by drug dealers that’s supposed to kill governments.”

This reminds me of Saylor's "paranoid crypto anarchists" interview.

I guess it's good news that 12 years later we're still fighting these battles.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/41433284-bitcoin-billionaires

view all related items

91 sats \ 1 reply \ @realBitcoinDog 18 Feb

Bitcoin is dead.

Long live Bitcoin!

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 18 Feb

Hail to the king baby!

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheMorningStar 18 Feb

Bitcoin is for everyone.

167 sats \ 7 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Feb

It's things like this that make me appreciate the service @DarthCoin provides everyday.

Bitcoin is going to kill many governments and people can get on our fringe train or get run over by it. That's their choice.

73 sats \ 2 replies \ @DarthCoin 17 Feb

I am just pointing out the obvious that many people do not want to see.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Feb

And I appreciate it more when I see how weaselly some people in our space have acted.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 18 Feb

Governments are crucial determining the wealth and security of nations and citizens.

To deny this is to deny reality, history and human nature.

64 sats \ 3 replies \ @siggy47 OP 17 Feb

I have to be honest. I feel my inner @DarthCoin emerging daily.

73 sats \ 0 replies \ @LibertasBR 17 Feb

I feel the same

45 sats \ 0 replies \ @nichro 18 Feb

Soon you will post a reaction gif of Vader intuitively without even noticing it.

That's when the transformation is complete

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 17 Feb

Let it free

78 sats \ 7 replies \ @kepford 17 Feb

I think most of us have long accepted this. We won't live in some dream world where the state just rolls over and people accept our view of it... so they aren't wrong there. In my view bitcoin will not convert people to anarcho-capitalism or anything like it. If the state is defeated it will take generations, but the state isn't gonna be defeated without something like bitcoin subverting its power. And in my view this is not dependent on individual's views. Its the incentives of greed and wealth that will bring bitcoin into widespread acceptance.

What I think bitcoiners have to remember is to avoid making heroes out of people like Saylor, the Winklevoss, or even people like Odell and Jack Dorsey. Everyone has their own agendas and incentives. Its obvious to me that Saylor isn't an anarchist. He's never hid that. People put things upon people that they never say because they want desperately to have a hero that is like them. I'm not saying we can't learn from all these people, or that they are evil or bad. I don't know them personally so who knows...

I suspect we will be fighting these battles long after bitcoin is the money of the world. Long after you and I are no longer among the living. Even if all bitcoin did was make wars harder to fund with a hard money that would be a massive win for humanity. I don't think enough people realize just how much of the worlds wars are amplified by the money printer. Take that away and states have to raise direct taxation to fund their wars. They will do it but its harder to sell.

Prepare yourself for more bitcoiners to say things we don't expect as their stash grows in purchasing power. They will be trying to keep targets off their backs. Targets used by state actors. Many will become state actors for this reason. Bill Gates was once not at all interested in lobbying Washington. Once the state went after his creation he became VERY political. I think this is happening with bitcoin and crypto. Clearly its happened with Trump's election.

It is what it is I guess. Bitcoin doesn't care.

146 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 17 Feb

bitcoiners have to remember is to avoid making heroes out of people

agreed

In my view bitcoin will not convert people to anarcho-capitalism or anything like it

Indeed bitcoin doesn't care, but if people do not change their mind, bitcoin will be for nothing. Bitcoin doesn't fix anything if people doesn't change their mindset. Bitcoin is THE solution if people consider to change their mind.

And here is how to use Bitcoin as a "solution":

57 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford 17 Feb

I think you agree with me that many people today aren't capable of understanding bitcoin. Well... maybe they are capable but they are never going to do it mostly because they are just asleep.

I don't disagree with your statement. Bitcoin is all incentives and it will obsolete things that create bad incentives but people are required to change their actions to change the world. Its not gonna be passive. I just don't see it in any of the generations alive today. Its gonna take time and I hope my descendants live to see it.

36 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 17 Feb

The hard to swallow truth comes from memes:

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 18 Feb

People do not want to be sovereign individuals- its too hard and demanding. People want comfort and security and governments can provide that. Take away the government and the first thing people will do is to start forming a new one. Governments are crucial in determining the wealth of nations. Only Libertarians would argue otherwise and when their 'logic' is challenged they fall suddenly silent...because it does not stand scrutiny. and cannot win a fair and reasoned contest of ideas.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 17 Feb

We need to the tool to rebuild the world. Bitcoin is that tool. Its foundational.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 17 Feb

Love that video btw.

78 sats \ 0 replies \ @nichro 18 Feb

Even if we disregard the (obvious) fact that not everyone will suddenly become anarchist or libertarian, Bitcoin simply existing makes ending or significantly weakening the state possible.

In other words: without sound and sovereign money, it is not possible. With it, it is possible. Doesn't mean it's guaranteed, and much of what happens rests in the hands and wills of the people.

But going from impossible to possible is like going from 0 to 1. It's a breakthrough.

To push it from possible to probable, that is a whole arc in itself.

236 sats \ 0 replies \ @Solomonsatoshi 18 Feb

Governments and bankers have already largely captured the Bitcoin protocol. It seems most bitcoiners have not noticed that- The vast bulk of Bitcoin hodlers are KYCed- known and tracked and traced by the state. By far the majority narrative for Bitcoin has become seeing it and suing it as a speculative commodity- not a P2P censorship resistant payment protocol. Within a few short years the Majority of Bitcoin ever to be issued will be held in the custody of US based institutions where it is not available for use as a payments protocol...it is expressly excluded from such use in most cases. Bitcoin is not being used as a P2P payments protocol and appears unlikely to be in the foreseeable future. As long as Bitcoin remains a speculative commodity, taxed, tracked and traced, it poses little to no threat to the fiat operators payments hegemony. They don't need to apply a ban on private custody, they have achieved defacto obstruction of use for payments already. In classic cartel style the fiat operators have captured and controlled this upstart challenge to their market dominance, wealth and power...so slyly hardly anyone noticed.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @userbob6 18 Feb

Bitcoin thankfully doesn't care what he or Saylor says or does. There's new evidence of this roughly every ten minutes.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @PictureRoom 18 Feb

Some things take time to turn around. Like a cargo ship

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @godlikeXi 18 Feb

It's sound and winning. Bless "Satoshi". They/he has tipped the scales.

36 sats \ 1 reply \ @OT 17 Feb

How's the book? It's in my local library.

7 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 17 Feb

It's an entertaining book. I didn't read it sooner because I figured it would cover the same ground as Digital Gold. I was wrong.

36 sats \ 0 replies \ @Aardvark 17 Feb

Siggy, you're killing me with the rage bait today. I'm turning green over here. 🤣