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0 sats \ 52 replies \ @DarthCoin 28 Jan \ parent \ on: Critiques of "Non-Kyc" Bitcoin bitcoin
THIS
Even if you don't "use" Strike to purchase Bitcoin, how are people supposed to acquire Bitcoin without involving KYC?
Here's a scenario, a "wealthy" person wants to buy 10000 Euro's worth of Bitcoin. Where do they do that without signing up for a KYC service?
Strike Zelle and Cash App are all KYC.
Other than sending cash in the mail or finding a Bitcoin ATM....? Or a P2P cash transaction?
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Or a P2P cash transaction?
Obviously. 10,000 EUR isn't much cash to invest over time if you use cash regularly; if you don't use cash regularly, WTF are you doing?
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Not so much over time, but all at once or over say a few days.
Before that person can do that... they have all these other tools they need to learn (robosats, what TOR is etc)
And then they're meeting a stranger (assuming they find the posting on Robosats in their area for cash) to exchange thousands in cash.
To go from owning 'no Bitcoin' to doing this is... kinda a big jump imo.
And assuming it's a 'wealthy person' who's doing this weekly or monthly it's going to take quite a bit of time as well, and they want to do it safely too.
For one off buys or occasional buys it's not a big deal... but regularly I'm not sure it's the answer. I wish we could do more
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Why people always want "to buy BTC" instead of earn BTC?
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We're talking in circles here.
My employer doesn't pay in Bitcoin, they honestly know nothing about it.
I mention it from time to time with coworkers or friends and they either think it's a scam (like a memecoin?) or a few them poke fun at me when I mention it (I'm like the funny Bitcoin-person LOL).
I don't know a single other person IRL who has heard of Lightning
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My employer doesn't pay in Bitcoin
- make them pay in bitcoin ( see example here: #692855)
- start using a service that pays YOU in BTC (did you read the links I just posted?) and gradually work on making them to pay you in BTC. https://darth-coin.github.io/beginner/be-paid-in-bitcoin-using-bitwage-en.html
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Strike offers the option to direct deposit your paycheck into your account and convert all or some of your paycheck into Bitcoin. Bitwage does this and probably more. However, both services require personal information. You seem pro Bitwage. Are you opposed to Strike in this sense?
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No. I am pro any option to get your wage directly in btc and don't do any shity dca.
DCA is for pussies.
Anyways, bitwage, strike and other wage services are only a transition to a full direct payment in btc.
For example I used bitwage from 2015 until 2018 meanwhile I did an intensive work of convincing my clients to pay me in btc.
Then from 2018 I start being paid in btc directly so I didn't need bitwage anymore. Only sporadically with temporary clients that haven't btc.
The difference between strike and biteage is that with bitwage you do not need any bank account in your name.
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no. the whole point is to never touch fiat.
DCA means you are chicken shit buying sats with 20 cuckbucks every week.
go full in and convert every single cuckbuck you have into sats
To be fair, something like Bitwage doesn't really "solve" the "KYC problem", just shifts it to a different company.
Bitcoin circular economy is the only way to insulate oneself from fiat and all the garbage like KYC/AML.
And let's be real, you have to be both lucky and an incredible leader to create such an economy around you. It's not for everyone, it's going to be a slow process, and there will be people stuck in fiat mines for many years to come.
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Using Bitwage is not using a bank account in your name. You are totally bankless. That is a huge advantage.
Yes is not ideal, but is a start.
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I hate to echo Taleb here, but How do those counterparts get bitcoin?
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From others that already have.
I am paying the local fruits and veggies producer with sats because I already have sats.
I am paying the landlord in sats, because I already have them / earn them.
If people just hoard sats and never use them as money WE WILL NEVER GET THE FUCK OUT FROM FIAT DEBT SLAVERY.
But also never go back to fiat by selling your sats for more fiat. Just pay as much as you can directly in sats.
See more here: #576140
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True true... And how do they get some?
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From others that already earn sats.
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I think what Denl is asking... is how do we start a circular or meaningful usage of sats in the real economy?
Merchants have to have people who want to use Bitcoin. But without them, there are no merchants. Which means there is no where to spend it, which means there are no merchants... and so on and so on.
In addition, the merchants have to have the apps and at least a basic understanding of how to use them in order to accept Bitcoin over Lightning anyway.
And then, once the merchant accepts the Bitcoin what do they do with it? If their suppliers and employees accept it too then great... but we are not there yet.
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You can buy bitcoin at ATMs in Vienna without KYC
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Horrible pricing/spread?
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7 is awesome for an ATM I suppose. Have heard/seen horror stories of 15-20%.
Also, Peach usually trades at what, 7-12% above market so I mean you're in the same ballpark then
Is it worth it?
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What are the fees like?
If they're lower than my capital gains tax rate, I may go there when I need to sell my sats for fiat to buy something I can't buy with sats.
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They were like 7% when I was there.
Limits were like €500 per person per day or something but there are multiple machines across the city
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If it's Non-Kyc... how do the machines identify individual persons?
Does it require a phone number? Does it have to be an Austrian number or just EU?
If a phone number is the only thing required... why not just use the same machine repeatedly or several times (with different numbers of course)?
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Not sure how it verifies since I never verified anything. It didn't require a phone number or anything for small orders under like 500 Euros or something. I can't quite remember but it was all very easy with just a few taps on the screen.
I never exceeded the non-KYC limit but I imagine that it uses an EU phone number that is verified and attached to your identity.
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It is possible, easy in fact to generate infinite phone numbers on the spot to receive authentication codes, paying over Lightning.
So if it asks for a phone number... you can just generate one to receive an authentication code.
Did the machine want to verify you weren't using it multiple times? Or ask for any other information?
Sms4Sats https://sms4sats.com/
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It is possible, easy in fact to generate infinite phone numbers on the spot to receive authentication codes, paying over Lightning. So if it asks for a phone number... you can just generate one to receive an authentication code.
But why bother with phone numbers and auth codes if you don't need to provide any information at all?
Did the machine want to verify you weren't using it multiple times? Or ask for any other information?
I never used it more than once in a certain timeframe. I would just visit one or two machines a day as I enjoyed the city. Euros in. Sats out.
IIRC, you walk up to the machine and tap "Buy Bitcoin" and then a second button for above/below the KYC limit. Then you agree to ToS and scan your address. You put cash in. When you're done, you tap a button and then it prints a receipt.
Txs are batched about once an hour so you have to wait a little bit but that's it. No personal data. I was there like 6 months so it might be different now.
you can earn BTC without KYC and any % rate if you beat the hell out your payer...
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