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Hey let's talk about birth! Any experiences to share?
For myself, I have a pretty strong aversion to hospitals and prescribed drugs. I take issue with a lot of modern treatments that women giving birth in hospitals receive in the US. I've watched videos of natural births and known several women who have delivered in their homes, and I believe it is such a miracle. It's an overlooked one-of-a-kind transformative experience. When the whole process is voluntarily handed over to medical professionals who take care of sick people, I think it robs women of a powerful and impactful experience. Going through hard things is worth it, and the body has all the equipment it needs. (I know that's strong language, and I'm not sure I would represent this point to a mother who chose hospital care. It's very possible the same is found inside the hospital as much as it is outside. I don't know what either experience is like, so perhaps someone could enlighten me.)
I wonder if giving birth naturally is still a cultural, unquestioned norm elsewhere in the world, and what it's cultural place may be. Do families come together to attend births? Do midwives practice widely, less or more than doctors?
I recently heard a story about a woman giving birth in her car at the parking lot of her birthing center, baby rushing out before she had time to get out of the car and inside the facility. She was a little in shock about how quickly it went, reporting only 20 minutes in labor! There's a principle in there, I think. Birth will never be what you expect!
First, we need to differentiate between a natural birth and a home birth. Women can have a natural birth in the hospital, but this is very difficult due to harsh lightning, nurse shift changes, IV poles, and cervical checks. all of the above are not conducive for progressing natural labor. Hospitals need to make money. They want fast patient turnaround time, so if you are not laboring fast enough they will start Pitocin (synthetic oxytocin) to speed things up. From there things snowball for the worse as the drug causes more painful contractions and the woman now begs for an epidural. The intense uterine muscular contractions often cause "fetal distress," as the baby gets squeezed harder and longer. Hospitals can bill more for every intervention they provide (think how much an ICU baby costs).
In the USA businesses, it is the norm to see an obstetrician, and very few women see a midwife. In the UK and Europe, this trend is reversed. "According to new research from the World Health Organization (WHO), caesarean section use continues to rise globally, now accounting for more than 1 in 5 (21%) of all childbirths". Obstetricians are trained primarily as surgeons who are more than happy to provide this service. U.S. hospitals take advantage of women in vulnerable situations.
I am 26 weeks pregnant with my first child. I have chosen to see a midwife since the beginning of my pregnancy. I did not know at first if I wished for a homebirth. After reading "Ina May's Guide to Childbirth" -- I decided to pursue a homebirth.
If something were to go wrong, I am confident my trained and highly experienced midwife will assist with a hospital transfer. In that scenario, I am aware that a natural birth will not be possible.
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hi congrats on your pregnancy, thanks for providing your perspective and a few facts! this is in line with my perspective and I am currently reading Ina May's book!!
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1763 sats \ 6 replies \ @gnilma 10 Nov
My wife gave birth to 3 children, all natural births, no c-section, no epidural, but all happened in hospitals. All she used was the laughing gas during labor. She told me later that the gas didn't really do anything to help the pain, but breathing the gas helped her focus on her breathing between contractions. She took the pain like a champion through all 3 births.
Yes, there are stories of women having a very short labor and giving birth very smoothly / quickly, but I think those are the exceptions, not the norm. Labor is typically long, especially the first child. Our first child took about 10-11 hours, from the moment she noticed frequent contractions to the time of birth. That is not to say you can't be the exception, but just be prepared and manage your expectations. Being in good physical shape helps a lot, as it does take a lot of effort and energy; it is called labor for a reason.
I'm not sure how it is in US hospitals, but here in BC, Canada, the hospitals encourage and promote natural birth. I think they will give mothers epidural if requested, but mothers have to request it.
Personally, I think the benefit of giving birth in a hospital is that there are medical professionals in case of any "oh shit" moments, such as baby's position not coming out right, umbilical cord catching baby's neck, mother having excessive bleeding, or whatever reason that require immediate medical attention. Child birth sometimes do have complications and there are definitely risks. That said, life is about trade-offs, and each person make their own trade-offs according to their own preferences. I can totally see the advantage of giving birth in the comfort of one's own home; the feeling of familiarity and support probably can never be matched by hospital births. In our case, my wife and I took the trade-off of giving birth in a hospital, because we wanted immediate access to medical professionals in case if something went wrong. Luckily, all 3 births went smoothly, and all kids came into this world healthy and loud.
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All those complications you mentioned, midwives are trained to respond to.
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415 sats \ 0 replies \ @gnilma 10 Nov
I guess we just made up our minds early and didn't even explore the possibility of using a midwife. But you are correct, midwives, especially experienced ones, are train to deal with issues and complications during birth. They are trained professionals specialized in aiding women bring life into this world.
My sister in law did hire a midwife, and she had regular meetings with my sister in law during pregnancy. The birth was planned to be at home, but my sister in law ended up having to give birth at the hospital because her child decided to come into this world early. The concern was my niece might need special equipment to support her life. Her midwife was also at the hospital to deliver the baby and remained there to provide support afterwards.
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that's awesome! Congrats to your family!
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Thank you!
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When I read your reply, I thought I read about myself and my own experience. Amazing.
I would perhaps add to this:
When the whole process is voluntarily handed over to medical professionals who take care of sick people
that in most “western” hospitals, the professionals assisting with births and taking care of sick people are not the same people.
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that in most “western” hospitals, the professionals assisting with births and taking care of sick people are not the same people.
There's probably maternity departments and doctors / nurses usually specialize, so I agree that the medical professionals assisting child birth and taking care of sick people are probably not the same people. In our case, we have a Women's Hospital (located right next to the Children's Hospital, with buildings connected) dedicated for pregnancy care, child birth, and post birth care. So, the professionals assisting births are not even in the same hospital as the professionals helping sick people.
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The best is a natural birth at the hospital.
I have several kids. My wife gave pretty natural births (no c-sections, no special procedures), but at the hospital. People do not realize that if everything goes well, the hospital staff does not get involved that much.
But in case something goes wrong, you have all the tech, staff on call, etc. to save you and the life of your child.
During the second birth, our baby got stuck a bit and the midwife had position my wife in a way to allow the baby to get out. I can’t imagine dealing with this at home alone.
Sure you can have a midwife at home, but why risk it?
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My wife wanted to have a natural birth. But when her labour pains started, it took what felt like eternity for her dilation to move to just one cm. She was in so much pain that she said screw it and asked to be admitted one day earlier so that she could benefit from the epidural. She was apologetic about admitting herself into the hospital one day earlier than planned because that meant another day of hospitalisation expenses. Anyway, she was in so much pain that I think a natural birth was out of the question for her
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I was caught exactly in the same situation on 24th last month. The result was also the same. No natural birth.
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One of my cousins haa two kids. Both her babies came out normally within 10 20 minutes in labour even after the doctor's suggested otherwise.
I think this recent surge in C-Section might kill the ability in women of delivering babies normally overtime. Also listened that many women deliberately have c-section. Don't understand the reasoning behind this.
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yeah I'm noticing the same.
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I assume this will make women less capable of delivering babies normally in future for the rules of evolution. You don't use something, it get inefficient.
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Giving natural birth is still a cultural norm in parts of India. I still see many babies are delivered at homes by midwives with the help of other women here. But I don't like at home delivery because I lost one of my aunts after the delivery at home. I think she might be alive if in a hospital.
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Yes. I attest it's still popular in our villages. Although, the midwives are now, as I can see, more of like trained nurses. Aren't they?
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That's hard, I'm sorry that happened
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I intuitively agree with you, feels more natural and powerful etc. And humans have done it forever so how bad can it be?
This, though, terrifies me:
(Since child mortality -- and women dying in childbirth -- are almost entirely a story of giving births clinically and at hospitals instead of at home)
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I think we have figured out how to use tools and medicine for good reasons and there is nothing wrong with that. I also think we get in our own way and fall into routines that become norms and then requirments and that then becomes problematic.
It is important to remember that we are (or should) all be free to choose whatever path through life is right for us.
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I'll recommend Emily Oster's book Expecting Better as a resource to look at. She does a fairly rigorous comparison of different birth options. That won't give you much information on the experiential side, although she does describe her own experience.
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as long as she doesn't discuss covid and mRNA shots
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I know she's become something of a punching bag in our circles for that Atlantic article, but she was much more reasonable during covid than most in the mainstream and probably did help keep lockdowns from being even worse.
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We have had three babies naturally with no pain management. Aimed for all to be water births but the first took to long and she had to get out of bath but other two were water births
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131 sats \ 2 replies \ @nym 10 Nov
To each their own and I respect everyone’s opinion, but I definitely trust modern medicine for the most part, like if there’s a complication.
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so you've no natural birth experiences to speak of?
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70 sats \ 0 replies \ @nym 10 Nov
I don’t, so have no judgment either way, just a personal opinion for now until I get more experience.
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"The human brain has rendered the organism’s most basic task, reproduction, a treacherous affair. That same brain made things like labor and delivery units, cardiotocometers, epidurals, and emergency C-sections both possible and necessary." from When Breath becomes Air by Paul Kalanithi Not an answer to your question but just a passage that I thought was brilliant and stuck with me for many years.
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100 sats \ 2 replies \ @Fabs 10 Nov
I'm no expert, but I don't think that every women's hips are of the same - needed - "size", which could mean death for both the mother / child.
Moreover, not every baby is delivered "working" off the shelves, such that immediate help can be needed.
That being said: I'm with you on the experience-part.
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bearishness on humanity smh
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39 sats \ 0 replies \ @Fabs 10 Nov
Huh?
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29 sats \ 1 reply \ @jddska 10 Nov
Caesarean section is a total fiat thing, and should be used only in extreme cases.
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I agree and this is what makes me hesitant about hospitals. I've encountered the data about how often hospital births lead to C section when birth is just taking a long time and the woman gets too tired. I also know women who schedule their c section birth, as in the c section is the plan for birth. That's a little backwards to me.
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Home births are somewhat common in Finland as far as I know.
Most c-sections are fine, but a friends wife was accidentally scarred on her intestines and has had to watch what she eats since then. Broccoli is especially painful for her.
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ouch!!
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I trust modern medicines much more than anything! And it's kinda risky (natural birth). You know what? In ancient times most deaths weren't caused by wars, diseases etc. Instead it was mostly women who died by giving birth! (You can do a little bit of research that how modern medicines helped reduce this number).
I respect everyones opinion though!
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @398ja 10 Nov
Modern medicine recommends natural birth for its role in seeding the baby's gut bacteria and immune system
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The Business of Being Born (2008) is a pretty good documentary about hospitals vs natural nativity. watch for free here: https://m.vk.com/video-9148368_165258427
Rregarding the pain & suffering, here is another documentary exploring the opposite perspective: Orgasmic Birth (2008). watch for free here: https://vk.com/video166984977_170299562
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Natural birth in a hospital for us!
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I believe at home natural births are the best way.
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @398ja 10 Nov
Natural birth is preferable, IF the woman can physically handle it, which is getting rarer in these modern times. The baby coming in contact with the mother's vaginal fluids is important for seeding its gut bacteria, and help it develop its immune system.
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yeah and tons of other things like that! like immediate contact, letting the mother see the progress of birth, letting her choose positions
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Do you have a midwife and/or doula?
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I am not pregnant, but I do plan on midwifery for my care if I were to be pregnant
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