0 sats \ 5 replies \ @AJ1992 29 Sep \ parent \ on: Bitcoin, as a bitcoiner, is a really lonely place sometimes bitcoin
You missed the point or you're truly immersed in the Darth coin cult. Bitcoin IS NOT PERFECT. Thinking it's perfect and acting like it is #1 is a disservice and #2 turns people off when you're trying to orange pill them. There's always room to improve. Why would people want to pay an always changing, high (in comparison to other payment methods or cryptos) fees to transact when they can transact with fiat for free? Why would they want to wait who knows how long or if ever their tx will be confirmed when with other payment methods or cryptos it is confirmed instantly or almost instantly? And don't say lightning solves these issues because lightning has its own issues. Genuine questions.
'Other blockchains' with very few exceptions (maybe monero but I'm not even sure about that) go to zero. There is zero reason for them to exist as Bitcoin communicates, sends, receives and stores money already. Blockchains that are proof of stake (most of them) cannot compete with proof of work because it's 'value out of thin air'. There is no energy or material cost to creating their value or network. Look at how ethereum has fared since the 'merge' ie transition to proof of stake. It has been a downward slope, exchange-rate wise relative to Bitcoin ever since.
And yes you are correct Bitcoin is not perfect. But it is by-far-no-comparison the best blockchain. Most security, most decentralization, best transaction finality, best hardware and software wallet support, best price performance (by far), best name brand appeal best regulatory status and clarity everything really of all the PoW (necessary) offerings.
Again Bitcoin is NOT perfect it takes education to use currently with the current UI, the fee rate is variable (as it will be inevitably) but it is the digitization of sound money and nothing comes anywhere close to its network effects.
By using Stacker News you are essentially using lightning. Custodial lightning, non-custodial, semi-custodial (like via Phoenix Wallet which I really like) it's still all lightning. Lightning is REALLY fast and REALLY cheap to use even when on-chain fees are high. For example some stacker very graciously zapped me 10000 sats for this post (for which I'm extremely grateful)... and I withdrew 5000 of those sats for a fee of less than 7 sats? (Which is like half a penny currently).
A friend reached out to me a few moments ago who is trying to fund a lightning channel, get it set up. Sent those same sats to him for a fee of... .47 Sats yes that's half a sat. That's through my OWN lightning node, non-custodial, using a node-out-of-the-box and I am not a technical user.
No other blockchain has those same balance of characteristics and network effects... saying that the others 'compare' in my opinion is intellectually dishonest. This way Bitcoin can be for everyone.
Peer to peer money? Check
Long term savings? Check
Anonymity (albeit with privacy tools like coinjoins) Very doable
Money for wallstreet and the suits? Definitely
Good for 'stranded energy' and the economizing of the energy infrastructure? Sure
Open source with tons of code review/good developers? Yes also.
What's missing from Bitcoin imo is the education... as to what it is and what real-world problems it solves (monetary debasement and repression) and finally the capitulation from all the other 'cryptos'. I believe they go to zero over the long term because who wants to use the 'second-best' given the choice? Lightning, with education, is crazy fast and can be used crazy-cheap while on-chain is secure enough for billion-dollar hedge funds. It works for everyone.
The 'maximalism' sometimes isn't really well articulated and there's a ton of noise on places like Twitter (stay off it) but there are really meaningful reasons why Bitcoin is the best at what it does. Money for everyone separate from the state for the long term. This was a really long response but you asked for one and I take those responses seriously.
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You fail to realize what will keep people away from Bitcoin. Like the examples Ive given. Also, Litecoin and dash cost less than lightning does in most cases to transact on chain. And as stated, lightning has its own issues when it comes to capacity, inability to find a route, ect. And I love lightning I use it to pay for coffee in person in my city regularly. But you didn't address the fact that why would anyone be inclined to use Bitcoin over fiat. Fiat allows free and instant transactions and layer 1 Bitcoin, which lets be honest is where the large majority of Bitcoin tx's happen, is expensive. (even a dollar is expensive to transact money when there are so many other options that are feeless!) And you guys fail to realize that 95 % of the worlds population isn't concerned with their transactions being anonymous, and even that feature of Bitcoin is pretty.much non existent anymore. I'm just playing devil's advocate here. But the big issue I have is you Bitcoin maxi's treat those who are skeptical with this arrogance and disdain and pretty much demand they listen to you and learn without being skeptical and it turns people off. Darth is a great example of this. Anyone who dare disagrees with him on anything Bitcoin related he bullies and treats them like shit. Also, a lot of maxi's have this entitled pompous attitude towards those that aren't interested in Bitcoin and you guys act like they're terrible people and should be shunned. This mentality won't get Bitcoin anywhere. Let's not forget, Satoshi created Bitcoin for everyone, but never states that it should be forced or mandated into universal adoption..
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Are... you serious? Or is this a kind of comedic sarcasm?
Why wouldn't someone want to use Fiat? I mean why wouldn't someone want to use the Mexican Peso? Or the Lebanese Pound? Argentinian Lira?
Lightning works great. Been using it all the time and rarely (although occasionally) have issues.
I respectfully disagree that 'layer 1' bitcoin is expensive. It's like sub-50 cents right now, which as a % of transactions of any reasonable size... is tiny. 50-cents to send a million dollars it's far cheaper, more secure, and more transparent that fiat on the right scale.
Most of the people here, you are correct, are Bitcoin maxis but that's because maxis believe that Bitcoin is the best choice for non-state money that works for everyone. The other coins may have cheap transactions... but that's because the chains are almost completely empty. Noone uses them (relatively speaking). And with a fraction of the hashrate they aren't anywhere near as secure for wall-street size transactions (inevitable for global money too) ie they are not serious blockchains.
Stacker News is all about Bitcoin. You are free to Buy and Hodl Litecoin good luck to you but I really think these issues have been resolved over the last 5-6 years.
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50 cents IS EXPENSIVE to a large majority of people when they can use fiat and pay no fee at all. And you forget, most people do not care about anonymity (even though that feature of Bitcoin is mostly gone anyway unless you take certain inconvenient steps) Most people also do not care about or do not understand that money is controlled by government and it means nothing to them. Bitcoin IMO will remain and is bound to be a novelty, a way to invest, and a way to gamble anonymously (that's what I mostly use cryptocurrency for, to gamble at crypto casinos that are kyc free). And that's not a bad thing, at all. Everything has a purpose in life. But for me, I find it impossible for Bitcoin to ever replace fiat and I think stable coins have a much higher chance of being the future of digital money. Just an opinion .
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Hi friend. If you don't like bitcoin then just... don't use it.
I think the problem that most people encounter or realize... is which fiat or government money do you use? The biggest one by far is the dollar. And the dollar is fine, for now probably.
However the US government is 35 trillion in debt and adding considerably to that each year - in 10 years the US gov will be over 50 trillion in debt.
At some point it will be mathematically impossible for US bonds to payout to bondholders... holders will want higher interest rates. Which all things being equal will result in lower rates (at the fed) and so more inflation. Using government money is fine, there's absolutely nothing with that as long as, in the long run governments stay solvent. Around the world that doesn't look to be the case so people will want an alternative that offers safety alternatively.
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