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My first experience with 'Attach Wallet' at SN — Blink and LN Address issues

1472 sats \ 35 comments \ @TheMorningStar 23 Aug meta

Hi stackers!

First of all a huge thanks to @siggy47. He helped me understand how to set it up. Without his help I might have screwed it or taken longer to perform a simple task. This is my first time recieveing any amount of Sats from anywhere. You can call me a noob in Bitcoin because I am.

After my discussion with him. I went to set up Blink wallet for 'Send Only' option and a 'lightning address' that too from Blink. Because I wanted to experience it, I set my "Desirable amount to zero" in the settings.

I had around 11.7k sats in my SN wallet prior to setting LN address. What happened after I set the LN address from Blink was very surprising and baffled me. I started recieving various amounts in my Blink wallet and it went on for at least a minute until my SN wallet became empty. I couldn't understand why so many transactions?

https://m.stacker.news/47710

From my 11.7k sats, I only received 11.4k sats. The rest were gone in fees. From what I know this is too much fees for 11.7k sats. You guys tell me if I'm right or wrong.

But this isn't all, from there whenever I recieved a zap, it went to my Blink wallet in fragments and everytime there was at least 1 sat fees. The below screenshot is for 1 single zap.

https://m.stacker.news/47712

Then, I started zapping directly from Blink wallet and one thing that again baffled me was 1Sat fee on every transaction for zaps. My default zap is 13 and to pay 1 sat makes it around 8% in fees. While paying through SN wallet, we didn't have to pay this fees.

After being irritated for a while, I decided to set my Desirable SN wallet limit to 20000 Sats so that the zaps don't withdraw directly to my Blink wallet. And, this is how I'll also be able to zap everyone again from my SN wallet. I'll also withdraw amount less than 20000 sats so that it doesn't cost me too much fees.

So, guys my overall experience with an attached Blink wallet and Lightning Address from Blink didn't go very well. If this is how an external wallet gonna be functioning for SN, I would rather go on to use SN wallet till I have option.

Kindly tell me if you have had the same experience or it's just I complaining here.

Are other external wallet function in the same way?

Thanks.

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280 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 23 Aug

Thanks for the mention. I see @k00b explained it better than I could have. One thing I want to say, and this isn't directed specifically in response to your post. Based on the recent US government actions, which seemingly amount to changing rules unannounced, it's really important that SN makes this transition. If it costs you a few extra sats per transaction, it would probably be worth it in the long run. SN is probably the best place online right now to earn sats. I think we would all agree that it would be horrible if one day we try to log in only to realize the site was taken down.

Furthermore, remember that the SN wallet is custodial. Yes, I trust K00b, but that's not the point. As bitcoiners, we all should be striving for decentralized solutions. This gives us all a little push to find those solutions.

158 sats \ 12 replies \ @Undisciplined 23 Aug

My default zap is 13 and to pay 1 sat makes it around 8% in fees.

Easy fix: radically increase your default zap. ;)

69 sats \ 7 replies \ @siggy47 23 Aug

And though he may think you're kidding, he would probably earn more net sats as a result

135 sats \ 5 replies \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

No, I don't think that he was kidding. It really presents a solution but just not a complete solution. I don't want to give up 1 sat everytime I zap or recieve sats to my wallet. No matter how big the zap or the withdraw is!

44 sats \ 4 replies \ @siggy47 23 Aug

Then now is your opportunity to learn to run your own node. Then you can open a channel to Stacker News, and there's no fee.

96 sats \ 3 replies \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

Yes sir, if that's the way to save precious Sats. I'm ready.

104 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 23 Aug

Or, if you're not willing to take that step, you can raise your zap amount for a few weeks as an experiment. Then calculate whether the increase in daily awards increases your net sats totals more than that 1 sat fee per transaction. My bet is that you will end up with more sats in the end.

454 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

I can raise my zap amount and because of you I already know what can change. And thank you for this also, on the day you taught me how to connect wallet with SN, my rank was 6 and I got almost 6000 sats. I also zapped the maximum on that day.

Thos is my first experience with Bitcoin and I must admit I'm feeling so privileged to find so good people who are willing to help selflessly.

When @coinsreporter told me about Stacker News, he mentioned about a lot of good things about this community but at that time I couldn't believe it and thought him to be exaggerating. Now, it seems that he was absolutely right.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Coinsreporter 23 Aug

Ahh! Thanks for the mention! You always get what you ask for. When I asked you why do you use social media? Ya said, 'for learning' so I just recommended you the best platform for learning. You're doing a great job! Keep doing what you're doing.

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74 sats \ 0 replies \ @Undisciplined 23 Aug

I was joking, but it would also be wise to follow the advice.

96 sats \ 3 replies \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

Haha! Let's make it more funny.

I gave a thought about it. But it still cost me 1 sat! I actually don't want to give up my 1 sat to a mediator. I absolutely hate mediators! 😜

108 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 23 Aug

Then you need to open a direct channel so there are no mediators

65 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 23 Aug

This. on my 'zaps' and withdrawals and deposits I pay almost no fees (usually 0)

96 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

Thanks again! Could you please guide me How to do it?

302 sats \ 15 replies \ @k00b 23 Aug

Thanks for the trip report!

I started recieving various amounts in my Blink wallet and it went on for at least a minute until my SN wallet became empty. I couldn't understand why so many transactions?

You had many autowithdraw txs because we don't know how much fees will cost when paying you. So we send you your_balance - your_balance * max_fee_percent, then if the fees were less than your_balance * max_fee_percent we do it again with the remaining balance, and so on, until it fails or your desired balance is reached.

From my 11.7k sats, I only received 11.4k sats. The rest were gone in fees.

We don't control the fees to your wallet. If you run your own lightning node, this is something you can take into your own control. If you only want to autowithdraw when the fees are lower, you can set your max fee percent lower.

(For p2p non-custodial zaps - which will replace autowithdraw fully before too long - we will pay the fee to your wallet, up to a reasonable level and taken from our sybil fee. If we can't get you your money with reasonable fees, we'll give you cowboy credits.)

Then, I started zapping directly from Blink wallet and one thing that again baffled me was 1Sat fee on every transaction for zaps. My default zap is 13 and to pay 1 sat makes it around 8% in fees.

When you make lightning txs you are using other people's resources to get the money to the destination (SN's node in this case). Most people won't let you use their stuff for free.

316 sats \ 13 replies \ @ek 23 Aug

When you make lightning txs you are using other people's resources to get the money to the destination (SN's node in this case). Most people won't let you use their stuff for free.

Adding to this:

When you run your own node, you can open a direct channel to SN. The fees will be zero then.

307 sats \ 11 replies \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

Thank you so much!

So, what's required to run a node? Is it easy or complicated?

131 sats \ 5 replies \ @ek 23 Aug

It depends a lot on your technical skills 👀

phoenixd might be the easiest to setup (and we will support it soon) since it manages liquidity automatically but that comes with additional cost again. Since your only peer will be the ACINQ node, you will also still have tx fees. I believe they are the same as the tx fees with phoenix wallet but not confirmed.

So if you want to run your own node and open a direct channel to SN for 0 tx fees (you will need to pay open+close fees to miners though), you will need to run LND or CLN and manage the node yourself.

As @k00b mentioned, you can do that with Umbrel and Start9. There is also @Alby Hub but you need an Alby invite for it.

104 sats \ 4 replies \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

I've listened a lot about ALby Hub but can't get my hands on it because of the same 'I don't have invite'.

you will need to pay open+close fees to miners though

How much that would be approximately if it's not fixed?

34 sats \ 3 replies \ @ek 23 Aug

How much that would be approximately if it's not fixed?

I used the channel open tx of this channel between SN and not @benthecarman to get an estimate for the tx size. So if we use the same virtual size (211.5 vB) but assume 10 sat/vB instead of 34 sat/vB, you would be looking at 2115 sats to open a channel.

125 sats \ 2 replies \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

Thanks!

By looking at your answer, I think I need to learn a lot. I even don't know what's vB. I'll learn it though in a few days' time.

This 2115 Sats is a one time fee to open a channel or it's recurring?

13 sats \ 1 reply \ @ek 23 Aug

By looking at your answer, I think I need to learn a lot. I even don't know what's vB. I'll learn it though in a few days' time.

No worries, I unfortunately had to mention them since fees depend on them. It's only really relevant for fees though.

If you want to learn more, you will need to learn about Segregated Witness since SegWit introduced them. It's pretty technical though, so don't worry if you don't understand most initially.

If you have questions, you can always ask them in ~bitcoin_beginners.

This 2115 Sats is a one time fee to open a channel or it's recurring?

one time fee to miners to mine the channel open tx (so just like any other onchain tx)

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93 sats \ 4 replies \ @k00b 23 Aug

I'd say it's advanced rather than complicated but products like Umbrel and Start9 make it easier.

81 sats \ 3 replies \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

Thanks! I'm reading the links you just gave.

Can I run a node on my mobile?

13 sats \ 2 replies \ @k00b 23 Aug

Yes, you can but it's not a great solution for zapping on SN yet.

463 sats \ 1 reply \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

Thanks! I got it. For umbrella and start9, I need a computer which I'll have in 1 months time. So, till then I'll be learning how to run my own node.

Thanks for your time sir! I'll ask again if I have a confusion or question.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 23 Aug

It's a little bit of an 'upfront' cost... But start9 and umbrel are nodes in a box, are reasonably priced in my opinion, and add a huge amount of usability to bitcoin in general.

You can run a node on one, open your own lightning channels, do coinjoins, host your own media, have your own 'blockchain' explorer, plus some social media stuff if you're interested in that - it's basically a packaged deal.

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90 sats \ 0 replies \ @WeAreAllSatoshi 23 Aug

This seems like a good idea!

200 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheMorningStar OP 23 Aug

Thanks for a detailed reply! Sir, I have no complains about SN and I understand why we need to attach external wallet. I've gone through previous posts and came to know about the right thing. But. I just don't wanna give up 1 sat everytime I zap or recieve Sats.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @supratic 11 Oct

Learn how to attach Blink to SN #705629

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @mdominicorobin24 24 Aug

Seriously how do I set it up? This is a neat idea.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Golu 24 Aug

Good learning! I feel like I've to give a lot of time to understand each comment.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satoshi__Nakamoto 23 Aug

The every time auto withdraw charge is pretty high I think we should not use this

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Octopus 24 Aug outlawed

stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.