Ex Mutiny dev moves to Taproot Wizards for focus in OP_CAT and CatVM \ stacker news ~bitdevs

Ex Mutiny dev moves to Taproot Wizards for focus in OP_CAT and CatVM x.com/benthecarman/status/1821581978560241706

2521 sats \ 38 comments \ @Rsync25 8 Aug bitdevs

With Mutiny shutting down, I am moving on to join TaprootWizards to help build out CatVM.

Working on Mutiny has made me come to terms with the current bitcoin scaling limitations, and we're hopefully going to show what's possible in the future. Catvm excites me because it is that it's a radically different model compared to something like lightning.

I'm still very bullish on lightning, however, there are so many pain points for end users. I've wrote my thoughts on it awhilet ago: #379225

In the post I mention Fedimint being the interm solution which I still believe to be true, but if in 20 years, we're still using Fedimint, that would be very bad imo. The current way bitcoin is moving is to custodial systems which can compromise the future of bitcoin, we need to try something radically different.

CatVM is a completely new design to scale bitcoin, with no channel management, no liquidity requirements, no interactivity assumptions, and a bunch of eager users who can’t wait for it to launch. It has a million ways it can go, so I'm excited to be a part of the team that's going to try to make it possible.

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5673 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 8 Aug

We are so early.

Why? Because a tiny company with a few devs closing shop is notable. Its gonna be OK. I wish the Mutiny team the best in their future ventures.

483 sats \ 1 reply \ @TonyGiorgio 8 Aug

Out of everything said so far, this comment puts a lot of things into perspective. Thank you for sharing it.

131 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 8 Aug

Take care of yourself Tony. Best of luck to you and your teammates.

153 sats \ 5 replies \ @siggy47 8 Aug

Watching Rabbit Hole Recap right now. Good conversation about all this.

214 sats \ 3 replies \ @kepford 8 Aug

Looking forward to listening but I've been thinking about something over the past few weeks. I believe I'm younger than you but I'm older than most of the loud bitcoin influencers and devs(how do I know this... you'll understand when you are older).

I can't help but think a lot of the stuff we see in this space is natural. I've worked in tech for many years and I've seen so many developers and founders get burned out. I've see the flame wars over my career. I've seen people post epic rants about what is wrong with [insert thing here]. Its humans. We over do it. We put our faith in things outside of our control. We are disappointed. We over-work and do not take care of ourselves. We get bitter. Bitcoin is special but some of what makes it special makes it even harder for people to be a part of it.

Maybe I'm oversimplifying it. I don't think I am. I'm not some wise old soul. I just a few years under my belt and I notice patterns. I've been bit by many of them myself. Bitcoin is special and unique but people aren't really that unique. We all make many of the same mistakes.

I'm not trying to be pessimistic. When you see this kinda stuff for me it is hopeful. I don't think the problem is with bitcoin. Its people. And we will always have these issues. Its gonna be OK.

Curious if these thoughts have crossed your mind @siggy47

I'm just gonna leave this here for my younger bitcoiners. The "community" isn't your family. The industry will not love you. It will not be there when you are old and sick. Invest in family and real relationships. Take care of yourself. Bitcoin is money. It isn't gonna take care of you. Its a tool. We need more than tools. And you know what... bitcoin will make it without you.

86 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 8 Aug

Great reply. I have had these thoughts. There's so much passion in this community. There is a sadness among devs now. Matt Odell said he's feeling burnout too. Time to get back to your family and friends and keep things in perspective. The passion and commitment is worthwhile. Bitcoin can change the world for the better. It still probably isn't a good idea to make it your emotional home and family.

76 sats \ 0 replies \ @DrStacker 9 Aug

Great points in the last paragraph especially, and most people don't realize that until they retire.

55 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 9 Aug

Sometimes SN users are like my annoying neighbors. Or Reddit moderators!

Not you @kepford

I agree with you 99 percent

43 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bitcoinity 9 Aug

https://fountain.fm/episode/XXNdZfodtkFt5G2d087q

245 sats \ 1 reply \ @bature_ 8 Aug

This part is great: "The current way bitcoin is moving is to custodial systems which can compromise the future of bitcoin, we need to try something radically different.

CatVM is a completely new design to scale bitcoin, with no channel management, no liquidity requirements, no interactivity assumptions, and a bunch of eager users who can’t wait for it to launch. It has a million ways it can go, so I'm excited to be a part of the team that's going to try to make it possible."

I've always been sceptical on fedimint, I never liked the idea.

242 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 9 Aug

with a little education and research... I set up an LND node, opened a channel to an exchange/public node and it works great. swapped out to get inbound liquidity, and connected to it over zeus, all over tor of course. now i'm here on SN sending and receiving sats to it.

I absolutely get some of the criticisms of lightning... but what am i missing? It fundamentally works. Yes with more and more 'adoption' fees will go up, and opening a channel will be more expensive. But let's face it the demand isn't there right now and that's with 60k+ bitcoin. It's suddenly going to increase 10-fold (actual demand, not nft or ordinal speculation) because... when? These other 'solutions' in my humble opinion seem sometimes like a solution in search of a problem. It seems to me that on-chain bitcoin will be relatively rare... and usually just to open lightning channels. Then people will have custodial (easy mode) or non-custodial (value mode) lightning channels and most sending will take place there. Trying to add all this 'capacity' without demand for it just seems off to me. People can transact now.

111 sats \ 2 replies \ @ek 8 Aug

https://xcancel.com/benthecarman/status/1821596839805624454

73 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 8 Aug

i'm not really a fan of ordinals but I do love udiWertheimer

fuck udi

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 8 Aug

fuck dan hedl too

107 sats \ 0 replies \ @ek 8 Aug

Surprising choice but explanation makes sense. I wish him all the best!

61 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 8 Aug

im really excited to see what ben works on. he always works on really cool stuff

314 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 8 Aug

https://m.stacker.news/44518

31 sats \ 2 replies \ @kepford 8 Aug

LOL. This is funny because its true.

247 sats \ 1 reply \ @supertestnet 8 Aug

except muun is unaffected and phoenix is also doing fine despite leaving the USA

22 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 8 Aug

Was waiting for this. Of course. And this comment is one reason why I love SN. Still funny.

I mean Phoenix appears to work fine in the US over Tor. Which is the way it should be used.

31 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 8 Aug

Maybe they will stop wizarding and use that VC money to do some real positive development. I respect benthecarman enough to think he must believe that to be possible.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 8 Aug

The new wizard in town... https://m.stacker.news/44517 credits @corndalorian

52 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 8 Aug

This is a Bugle article, right? @thebitcoinbugle

42 sats \ 2 replies \ @Rsync25 OP 8 Aug

Unfortunately no 😐

84 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 8 Aug

dirty money will always win against principles.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 8 Aug

Ben used to bash taproot?

I like cashu more than Fedi

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @jp305 8 Aug

He's much clever than me but, what pain points of Lightning are unsolvable?

We can fix this! Let's be positive!

Alby releasing very cool stuff right now, Proton off the races too, we are on track, it's just still very early.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @iam_jerry 9 Aug

Thank you ben for your service. I'm a very big fan of you, @TonyGiorgio and Paul.

"...The current way bitcoin is moving is to custodial systems which can compromise the future of bitcoin, we need to try something radically different."

Indeed, we need to try something different. Thank you.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @BallLightning 9 Aug

Why work on that when OP_CAT is unlikely to be activated? How do you work on something that relies on a feature that is not yet available and has a high risk of never being available?

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Bell_curve 9 Aug

Who is still bullish on fedimint?

I am scared to join one after freedom one

I can’t find one to join right now

I’m aware I contradicted myself

33 sats \ 1 reply \ @supertestnet 9 Aug

There are a bunch of them listed on bitcoinmints.com -- the ones that support MODULES are fedimints and the ones that support NUTS are cashu mints

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 9 Aug

I know they are listed there

Links are broken, invite codes don't work

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 9 Aug

what happened with freedom one?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 9 Aug

They had dns issues in July

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @OT 9 Aug

Are they assuming we will get op_cat?

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @ChrisS 9 Aug

Yes

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 9 Aug

It might not happen

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cyberpunk02 8 Aug

ahahaha it triggering so good, people are going to need to keep working to keep lighting decentralised