1. I receive a 500k sat utxo from an address on the US OFAC's sanctions list.
  2. I receive a 750k sat utxo from a kyc'd source like Coinbase
  3. I use both these utxos to pay 500k sats to address A and 750k sats to address B.
According to chain analysis/governments/the Man where are the sanctioned sats?
Address A18.4%
Address B0.0%
Both addresses are tainted81.6%
38 votes \ poll ended
With traditional bank accounts, I suppose the answer would be the whole account is tainted.
But with bitcoin's finite supply, doesn't this mean that before too long every utxo will be in an address on ofac's sanction list?
(If one tainted input means all outputs become tainted, the percent of utxos that are tainted will continually increase. It's contagious, like a disease or something, but no one ever gets cured)
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taint them all
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I was just typing this in reply to your comment above:
It would seem to be our duty then to combine tainted inputs with as many outputs as possible.
We should make something like the ordinal people use, but for finding sanctioned utxos so that we can try to spend them as widely as possible.
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You should be more worried about the dust attacks not the "sanctioned sats". It all goes to the simple question that seems nobody ask: "Who the fuck is the gov to tell me what can I do or not with my own money?"
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🌀
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That doesn't solve the "problem", just obscures the real beneficiary of a transaction.
You can still "taint" all outputs from a CoinJoin that included a "tainted" input. In fact, mixers make the "taint" spread that much faster.
So just screw the whole concept.
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My point is if you Whirlpool/mix, everything becomes tainted. And then there is no 'tainted'
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There is just corn
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Are tainted only when you go back to fiat. If you care about OFAC bullshit it means you ask for permission to use bitcoin.
I am not afraid of "tainted" coins but the people's belief that they need gov's permission to trade P2P with Bitcoin.
Send me all your "tainted" sats and I will take care how to deal with the govs.
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I too can take care of the govs.
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hahaha🤣 the master always handing out sovereign individual pills. the best
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Fair point, but I'm trying to get at the basic illogic behind these people who are trying to claim 1 sat != 1 sat
You can't really say the sats in any input end up in any particular output. So it seems like they try to say all outputs from a txn that has a tainted input are now tainted. The result is that there will come a point when most sats (if not all) sats are tainted.
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yes, using LN you will break that trace, paying sat by sat. Think also about using MPP through multiple channels, with multiple routes. There's no way to find which sat belongs to which UTXO.
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Tainted!! Let them be or send them to me!!
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Open a ligtning channel or peg-in into liquid. Problem solved.
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Liquid is awesome 😎
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Are these tainted sats in the room with us right now?
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Depends on their mental gymnastics I suppose, you could argue the newly created UTXOs aren't even the same funds!
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Over decades, I don't think OFAC would keep track of these ones. For example if it is 500K of sats, and it is the year 2070 I don't think it would matter anymore.
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If we're going to talk about tainted sats I would like to understand what the risks actually are?
As far as I'm aware receiving money is not a crime. But it could be used to connect you to a crime.
Receiving money is also a taxable event. If you failed to declare it as income on your taxes that would also be illegal.
If you didn't actually commit a crime it would seem to me the risk is being falsely accused of a crime you didn't commit.
Don't get me wrong, the risk is certainly not zero. There's obviously corruption in the legal system. People do get caught in the crossfire sometimes. We also don't know what the future holds, some future political change could greatly increase the risk of receiving tainted sats.
In an ideal world I never want to receive tainted sats. But it seems to me the simple act of receiving them is not the issue. The risk is the surrounding evidence that connects you with a crime you didn't commit.
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I zapped you a tainted sat. Consider yourself tainted head to toe.
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Pls send more. I am not yet thoroughly tainted.
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In this case wouldn't "the man" consider both tainted?
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That's my guess, but then doesn't that mean the pool of tainted utxos will expand rapidly?
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Chain-anal companies probably use some kind of taintedness score. A sufficient number of hops detaints the coin below whatever threshold the Man may need to set to declare his enemies terrorists.
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I would think so.
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17 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 12 Jul
Probably both. I wonder if they're tainted forever or after 10 hops they become "clean" again.
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17 sats \ 0 replies \ @nout 12 Jul
I think you should send a small portion of those sats to as many known KYC exchange addresses as possible. That way they provably received ofacked sats and have to deal with it...
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stackers have outlawed this. turn on wild west mode in your /settings to see outlawed content.