Abandoned Adoption : Bitcoin Backslides and Hard Truths

Abandoned Adoption : Bitcoin Backslides and Hard Truths - #307 open.substack.com/pub/livingonbitcoin/p/abandoned-adoption-bitcoin-backslides?r=9bii2&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=email

2880 sats \ 64 comments \ @siggy47 10 Jun bitcoin

Depressing take. I can't help thinking Gresham's Law plays a role. Anecdotally I find fewer people willing to spend bitcoin.

view all related items

175 sats \ 1 reply \ @leo 11 Jun

Fascinating write-up, thank you. In Vancouver we had tremendous success in the past year and half building a local circular economy. I'm still quite impressed how normal it has become at least among Bitcoiners to regularly spend Bitcoin. People know how important it is to kickstart a Bitcoin economy, and merchants are happy about the additional business.

There is some learning curve for users and merchants, but that's exactly why we are pushing for it. The tools are now good enough that we can use Lightning "in the wild", but not yet good enough for mass adoption. It is on us Bitcoiners to test and give feedback to those that build, because without us users, all the building and educating will be for nothing.

8 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 6 Oct

I try to spend it in person according to the 'btcmap' website (great site). However places that actually accept it are very rare (outside of a few concentrated places in North America). It seems like there is a remarkable amount of confusion as to what bitcoin actually is, why someone would actually have it, and why merchants should accept it after all.

Maybe it's all the 'crypto' narratives, maybe it's all the taxes that are involved supposedly in spending on coffee/small items... I don't know.

But it's like there is a disconnect between what bitcoiners see and what 'the world' sees and I don't understand it.

392 sats \ 7 replies \ @nerd2ninja 10 Jun

Isn't it obvious what went wrong?

We revisited places we enjoyed last year, expecting a similar ease of using Bitcoin. But this year, the landscape has shifted—for the worse.

Economics at this scale is all about those personal connections. That "regular customer" experience.

1 - Lack of Transaction Volume: Not enough people are using Bitcoin to make it worthwhile. Why invest time and energy into something that has no demand?

They went back to a merchant they had not seen in a while so the connection has been lost.

Every person I have seen try to "spread adoption" via merchant adoption, has resulted in the merchant abandoning the thing or they were using a 3rd party to accept it anyway.

Every person I have seen try to "spread adoption" via institutional adoption has also failed. They all use ETFs or other types of custodians.

The way I see things, Bitcoin adoption begins with a regular Bitcoin meetup. This meetup serves as a networking spot. People can talk about what businesses or trades they have and over time when there is a need to make use of it, they may barter trades (favor for favor) or they may use Bitcoin. Its part of the Bitcoin network either way.

Relationships

Most Bitcoiners miss that to have human action to trade a good or service between one another requires the regular maintenance of relationships.

401 sats \ 5 replies \ @oomahq 10 Jun

This is the approach we've been taking at our local community for the last 2 years.

While adoption is very slow, it hasn't backslided because the merchants we've met are bitcoiner business owners, not normie business owners looking for a marketing gimmick.

80 sats \ 4 replies \ @nerd2ninja 10 Jun

https://m.stacker.news/34784

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @oomahq 10 Jun

Hit on the nail.

44 sats \ 2 replies \ @OneOneSeven 10 Jun

Slow is smooth, smooth is fast.

@Undisciplined, this quote has been in my head since you posted it a few days ago, it's applicable just about everywhere lol!

54 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 10 Jun

It's been stuck in my head since season 1 of Modern Family.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 11 Jun

I’ve been to the set in Culver City. Sony Pictures.

2012

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 10 Jun

well said !

147 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 10 Jun

I love this article. Haven't read the comments here yet, let's see how many people are in abusive denial:

[...]

Hmm, better than I would have expected.

Btc is going to inhabit some niche in the world, and it's going to do it whatever the moralists think that it should do, and people are going to behave the way people behave regardless of what others prefer. The sooner the official narratives adjust to lived reality, the better it will be for everyone.

372 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby 10 Jun

Thanks for posting this. Very interesting read. It seems inevitable that the gift card off ramp will be closed.

There is still spending though, if you seek it out. I sold several posters for bitcoin last week. Bought access to super testnet's workshops with bitcoin. I'll pay my yearly bill for webhosting in bitcoin next month.

Orange-pilling merchants seems hard. I prefer to spend bitcoin at merchants who actually want it.

The get on zero people are impressive, but there is also good in using Fiat when that's required, and spending bitcoin when you can.

200 sats \ 2 replies \ @notgeld 10 Jun

While stories are genuinely interesting, the whole post misses the point. As mentioned in other comments, the process is cyclical and, I'd say, varies very much from country to country. It depends on the recognition of Bitcoin from a regulatory standpoint, of course, and the general "rule of law" and grassroots activities. It's a very complex topic, but during these recent years, I may definitely say that adoption has grown. Basically, we have to talk here about societal processes.

Was it significant? No. As a maintainer of LN wallet, I may say we get nothing, really, and have no budgets whatsoever. If we didn't fork for the hackathon in El Salvador, we couldn't maintain it. And this wallet has superior UX. Better than the plastic cards you are talking about. People tend to trash LN for bad UX, but they normally do not look beyond channel opens. If the wallet is not Blixt, the UX is much, much better in Lightning.

All magic in "crypto" happens in very stupid things. Yeah, Saifdean's concept of "Bitcoin=gun powder" is nice. However, millions are tapping on hamsters while BlackRock goes along Galaxy digital playbook. We just need to unite with other sane people. Saylor's effort clearly shows there is not enough of them, and it ended up with crazy self-repetitive mantras.

21 sats \ 1 reply \ @028559d218 6 Oct

I run my own lightning node, spend my own sats, buy more when I can, and manage a channel. It is NOT hard.

And yet when I mention Bitcoin the vast majority of people just look at me weird, laugh, roll their eyes, or just seem confused.

I ask my uber drivers for example or coworkers if they have a lightning wallet and they don't know what that is.

Visited 2 businesses in person recently in a large North American city that took Bitcoin 2 years ago... and they said last year they stopped taking it. They said it's been over a year since anyone wanted to buy anything with it, and this is one of the largest US cities in a busy shopping area. I don't get it.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @notgeld 6 Oct

There is some correlation between active Lightning users and people who want to spend Bitcoins. Sometimes sending sats is very emotional even if you overpaid for shopping.

So far, I've seen everything you've described, but only in Europe. Recently, the landlord rejected me because my startup has something to do with Bitcoins.

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 11 Jun

It's an interesting article and it made me think. It's not just that "We're early™". It's that programmable money enables use cases that go far beyond merely replacing currency at the local coffee shop and deli. We are going to see Bitcoin used in places and situations where you simply can't use cash or credit cards. @sn is a great example of this. We zap each other here all day with pennies that are simply out of scope for credit card use or any "fintech".

The Bitcoin, Lightning, NOSTR, eCash stack ("the stack") are going to open up new use cases that fiat simply can't touch. E.g. when driverless vehicles charge up autonomously, I can guarantee you that a robotic arm will not extend and swipe a credit card at the charging station. Nope. It's going to be done digitally. Preferably with the stack. Not depressed at all.

https://m.stacker.news/34883

222 sats \ 3 replies \ @Undisciplined 10 Jun

Growth is going to be very uneven, which will even include backslides in certain areas. We're so early that it's hard to get perturbed by bumps in the road.

It's hard to deny that Bitcoin is taking off as a store of value. Maybe that will continue to be the primary growth direction for a while. Once more people own it, more will want to use it.

131 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 10 Jun

I agree. The incredible appreciation it has experienced in the past year or so, coupled with all the moon shot predictions... It's understandable no one wants to part with their sats.

91 sats \ 1 reply \ @Undisciplined 10 Jun

I think usage will largely be limited to those of us who care about it. We can spend and replace, but to most people that's just extra work.

It's fine. Like the author says, the UX is still not very smooth. There are still lots of potential ideological allies who have yet to adopt. They seem like the margin to work on.

34 sats \ 0 replies \ @Satosora 10 Jun

"No one accepts it," followed by "I use it for savings." At least they are realizing that it will be a powerful tool for savings.

64 sats \ 0 replies \ @Notfast 11 Jun

Advice: do not try to think too much about convenience, or if this or that solution is better/faster than the other. Do not even focus on adoption. You pointed out the whitepaper, focus about the key ideas: permissionless, no authority, no central banking, no money by decree. Remember the message on block 0. Bitcoin is for bad times, and bad times are ahead, I have no doubt.

132 sats \ 1 reply \ @anon 10 Jun

True and False at the same time. His alias says it all. He calls himself : "rare passenger". That's precisely what you should avoid being : "rare" and "passenger". That's a fiat mindset.

No wonder Bitcoin isn't working out for him.

Bitcoin is about peer to peer. It's about relationships. I don't buy from "merchants". I buy from friends (who may happen to be merchants).

When you're buying from friends, all of a sudden, regulations don't matter. Then, Bitcoin shines.

Fee madness? Use lightning, liquid bitcoin, ecash.

My living on bitcoin is only going up. But I'm not a "passenger". And I'm not rare. I'm "right here" and "often".

If I was travelling, I'd convert to fiat locally and spend cash until I made friends. Then, I'd convert them to bitcoin and buy only from them.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 6 Oct

I wish I had bitcoiner friends.

95 sats \ 1 reply \ @SatsMate 10 Jun

My case for the SoV being 99.95% of Bitcoin's use case. Why spend your valuable bitcoin when you can spend your worthless fiat? Yes spend and replace, but many always do have a small fiat balance on them.

121 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 10 Jun

more time you use fiat = more time you are still in slavery

77 sats \ 6 replies \ @Satosora 10 Jun

People who have it dont want to spend it. Its just the way of life. This was a good article explaining many of the pitfalls of using bitcoin. But if we dont push past these boundaries and find where it is useful and not, it wont progress. It takes time for things to progress, even tesla struggled in the early days.

10 sats \ 5 replies \ @riberet19 11 Jun

But people don't spend it because they want to save or because the fees are too high and there are also few places where you can spend that Bitcoin? in my case, when I have seen a good opportunity to spend Bitcoin I spend it, using layer 2, but there are few places to do it.

10 sats \ 3 replies \ @Satosora 11 Jun

As it gets more widely adopted, it will get easier. 10 years ago, it was even harder. Things take time to develop, people dont accept things instantaneously.

23 sats \ 2 replies \ @riberet19 11 Jun

In my country, in 2013, more merchants accepted Bitcoin than today, today there are hardly any, many of them were large merchants, so it is difficult to justify that time will change this if there are no changes.

13 sats \ 1 reply \ @Satosora 11 Jun

Times change as we make progress. Bitcoin isnt easy for small transactions, but lightning is here.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 6 Oct

Lightning, from someone who uses it daily... is good

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 11 Jun

Saving is the reason

Fees fluctuate

68 sats \ 0 replies \ @grayruby 10 Jun

I don't think we go up in a straight line. I would agree it does seem adoption is slowing. Wall street has come to play now and bitcoin is being peddled as an asset in a portfolio. While this might bring a lot more capital into bitcoin, these people are not in it for the revolution. Hopefully the next wave of adopters are.

67 sats \ 0 replies \ @Svoboda 10 Jun

As an American, I have no interest in triggering a taxable event every time I spend. Until that changes, there will be very little movement in the United States.

67 sats \ 0 replies \ @SwapMarket 10 Jun

In Europe few business owners want to accept lightning due to accounting and tax headaches, and because they are lazy to learn and implement something new. Converting to Euro before paying, like what some debit cards offer, shifts the costs and the taxes to the payer. I am not ready to face those. We need some really high daily inflation to motivate the businesses to get rid of Euros. Maybe in a few years the bubble with burst.

67 sats \ 10 replies \ @swami 10 Jun

How many custodial wallets have withdrawn from the U.S. completely?

17 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 10 Jun

that doesn't affect any bitcoin adoption. Bitcoin adoption = better bitcoin education

26 sats \ 0 replies \ @nerd2ninja 10 Jun

A victory with each one really. Bank normalization is a fail condition.

13 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinAbhi 10 Jun

Two self-custody wallet provider announced they would withdraw from the US market and stop servicing local customers. The two providers and wallets are Acinq's Bitcoin wallet, Phoenix Wallet, and zkSNACKs' Wasabi Wallet.

13 sats \ 6 replies \ @siggy47 OP 10 Jun

Good point. That is a huge factor.

13 sats \ 3 replies \ @swami 10 Jun

I will pay 100 sats for the answer :)

113 sats \ 2 replies \ @siggy47 OP 10 Jun

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @swami 10 Jun

which??

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 11 Jun

Phoenix Wallet of Satoshi

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 10 Jun

it is not. it is a factor only for not well educated people.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @swami 10 Jun

most people

76 sats \ 1 reply \ @Coinsreporter 10 Jun

"But we're still early," some say. I'd counter with, "We're a little late."

It says everything.

However, I assume that we're early but we aren't slow. Bitcoin is a global phenomenon and it doesn't require so much of infrastructure to be practically used. We're definitely moving towards touching 1 B user mark in a year or from now and many governments (smaller ones initially) will start giving it a shot. Yes, to completely alter or abolish the old system of Fiat, it will take time. May be a century, may be 20 years from now. Who knows! But Bitcoin is inevitable!

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 6 Oct

I still honestly don't know if 'we're early'... or 'we're late'.

54 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 10 Jun

Getting on zero is a pretty hardcore way to live. Maybe it’s easier in areas with a high concentration of bitcoiners.

Sad to hear about the gift card limitations. As for the merchants having trouble paying for infrastructure, where’s the cost in simply using the wallet of Satoshi PoS? Not ideal, but comes with a negligible cost.

They might be right to let go of getting on zero, but IMO at some point merchants are going to need bitcoin. In the meantime I agree that the whole buying goods experience needs to be improved.

54 sats \ 1 reply \ @nullcount 10 Jun

Fact: Almost nobody uses BTC as currency anymore Maxis: everyone is wrong Nobody: there are better currencies than BTC

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 6 Oct

There are no better currencies than BTC (my opinion)

54 sats \ 0 replies \ @0xbitcoiner 10 Jun

It is up to each of us to do our best to make Bitcoin work for everyone on a global scale.

67 sats \ 0 replies \ @Athena 11 Jun

Isn't it that for everything people get depressed at some point? But what I can understand, Bitcoin is actually doing good. It's not an easy task to overturn a system that's running for centuries.

67 sats \ 0 replies \ @IamSINGLE 11 Jun

Bitcoin is on the starting point of the S curve and wait for 15 years more you will find Bitcoin in everyone's pockets...

67 sats \ 0 replies \ @jgbtc 11 Jun

I don't have much need for a better payments method at the moment. But a better store of value is a different story.

75 sats \ 1 reply \ @k00b 14 Jun

The idea, by Alan Watts, states that sometimes pursuing happiness can be counterproductive. You say you want to be happy, but in saying so, you realize you're unhappy. So you keep trying to do things that make you happy, but it reinforces the idea of your unhappiness.

I like this a lot. There are lots of practical, small wins available now, and we should focus harder on those rather than overpromising ourselves something else. I think adoption will come mostly as a matter of people using what's available, wherever that technology currently is. Bitcoin adoption will happen more slowly without government sanctioned shortcuts, but we shouldn't be relying on their roads anyway.

172 sats \ 0 replies \ @siggy47 OP 14 Jun

I thought @grayruby's post was interesting in looking at it as an a & b situation. I choose to remain optimistic about developing markets adoption, and not worry too much about the Saylor/Fink big finance assumptions.

67 sats \ 0 replies \ @BitcoinSearch 16 Jul

#609669

131 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 10 Jun freebie

https://m.stacker.news/34780

his wrong take is because he supposedly "live on bitcoin" but using gift cards bought with BTC. THAT IS NOT LIVING ON BITCOIN. You are just faking it. You are always going back to fiat by using those methods (or the so called "bitcoin VISA debit cards).

Living on Bitcoin is when you are surrounded by people, merchants accepting directly your sats and most of them do not go back and sell them for fiat. A merchant that will sell all his sats back for fiat it not counts as "bitcoin merchant", just another speculator, fiat lover. If you as bitcoiner, convince a merchant to take your sats but they stills ell back those sats for fiat, it is YOUR fault not explaining it well. It is all about to create that circular economy AROUND YOU.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @028559d218 6 Oct

I agree with this Sir Darth. In my humble opinion just 'buying the giftcards' may be a way to trade sats for a giftcard... but it is preferable to actually spend the bitcoin directly on goods and services.

42 sats \ 0 replies \ @Natalia 10 Jun

I'm happy to spend in Bitcoin, but only for necessary things. 👀

earn - spend - store the excess ♻️

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @anon 10 Jun

Trying to live on bitcoin like that sounds low time preference, but it is actually the opposite. Bitcoin will still be here when we are all dead and when fiat is dead, too. Its heyday may not be in our lifetimes. The hurdles he is facing are state attacks to keep dying fiat relevant. Those are signs of bitcoin's success, not failure.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @cristaiji 10 Jun

I’m always looking for ways to spend bitcoin so hopefully others will also and we’ll see in the future more uses as a medium of exchange and not just as a savings vehicle.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @tilolupili20 10 Jun

Bitcoin is freedom