Bitcoin and Morals: a reflection on our culture. \ stacker news ~bitcoin

Bitcoin and Morals: a reflection on our culture.

5423 sats \ 31 comments \ @pakovm 26 May bitcoin

You cannot serve both money and God.

In a debt-based monetary system, it's near impossible to not serve money.

#Bitcoin is Christian money.

JimmySong ¹

This is how Jimmy Song, a prominent Bitcoin puritan describes it in an attempt to promote his book "Thank god for Bitcoin", coauthored by Robert Breedlove, J.M. Bush, Gabe Higgins, George Mekhail, Lyle Pratt, Julia Touriasnki, and Derek Waltchack ². Breedlove's recent Onlyfans Girlfriend fiasco ³ where he left his tradwife and daughter in financial hardship ⁴ , ⁵ for an Onlyfans model less month after saying that "Porn is for weaklings" ⁶, is proof that this claim is completely nonsensical.

As pointed out in Lopp's A History of Bitcoin Maximalism ⁷ many Bitcoiners engage in a list of lifestyle subcultures:

Anti-woke
Carnivory
Laser Eyes
Anti-woke
Weightlifting
Tradwife culture
Climate change denial
Overt Christian moralizing
“Have fun staying poor” retorts
Rejection of seed oils and sunscreen
Vaccine conspiracies, alt-health cure-alls
Contrarianism for the sake of contrarianism
Political populism and support of strongmen
“Fiat” criticism of contemporary art and architecture

Non-surprisingly, Breedlove lives hes lifes by following many of these subcultures ⁸, he was a quintessential Bitcoin maxi of sorts for some, now he is the laughingstock of Bitcoin moralists and Bitcoiners in general, moralists now see him as an idiot because he was not able to keep up with the purity test which makes him a filthy FIAT person like everyone else, who has a lower moral standard, while non-moralists see him as an idiot because he imposed these purity test onto himself that no person with two braincells would be able to keep up for long and of course he didn't.

This is not to say that Robert is a midwit, in fact I always thought very highly of him outside of his controversial antics, The Number Zero and Bitcoin ⁹ is still one of my favourite Bitcoin articles, and despite Breedlove's wordsaladism, I will keep recommending it to people, but to say that arbitrary morality and purity tests don't make you a good person, they simply make you a moralist and a purity tester, and once you fail the tests, you'll bee seen as worse than anyone who never even tried to do these things in the first place by the very same people who got you into this.

Now, how does a person who's considered a philosopher, a good example of American right wing traditionalism, and a Bitcoin influencer, become FIAT AF ¹⁰ out of seemingly nowhere? Simple, he always was this kind of person, and none of these arbitrary tests, no amount of virtue signaling, and especially not Bitcoin could ever change that fact.

What I want to say with all of this is: Bitcoin won't fix the moral system through its incentive structure as some claim ¹¹, it won't bring back "traditional values" ¹² where men are real men who provide for their families and women are real women who give birth to children every 2 years and cook for their hardworking and providing christian husbands ¹³, it won't solve many of the "problems" the common moralist Bitcoiner sees in modern society, and virtue signaling about it won't do anything for you other than get you deeper into the hole, be prepared to be disappointed, because Bitcoin and morals have absolutely no relationship other than the one YOU think it has.

Link index: 1: Tweet by @JimmySong from 2021/Aug/31 2: "Thank God for Bitcoin" on goodreads.com 3: Tweet by @Breedlove22 from 2024/Mar/21 4: Tweet by @RaisingLove21 from 2024/Mar/22 5: Tweet by @brian_trollz from 2024/Mar/22 6: Tweet by @Breedlove22 from 2024/Mar/10 7: "A History of Bitcoin Maximalism" on blog.lopp.net 8: Tweet by @bitcoin_clown from 2023/Jun/05 9: "The Number Zero and Bitcoin" on medium.com 10: Tweet by @xpugHODL from 2024/Mar/22 11: Tweet by @HodlingCarla from 2023/Feb/23 12: Tweet by @nftisgood4me from 2023/Mar/15 13: Tweet by @gabyvivasbtc from 2021/May/03

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333 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 26 May

My general sense is that there are a ton of principled people in btc, as there are in any subculture you can think of; and most of the most principled ones don't try to build brands out of themselves.

The assorted Breedlove types out there, subsisting on chicken gizzards and raw milk and with a full sleeve tattoo of thorned Christ, portraying their moralizing as the natural endgame of btc enlightenment, are demonstrating something to the world that has nothing to do with btc. If btc didn't exist you can be assured they'd be equally estimable in the fields of BMX racing or cannabis advocacy. They are walking vacuums, and you know how nature feels about that.

It's a good lesson, though, that as contemptible as some of their behavior is, it doesn't mean these types are worthless or un-capable. Breedlove has, as you point out, written some smart things. Before he turned into a full-time tool he was, in different ways, a boon to btc. Many contemptible others are in the same boat. Nobody is just one thing.

It's alarming that being smart, and understanding some important and subtle truths about the world, doesn't keep you from being a raging asshat. That is definitely a sobering thought that should give a person pause.

188 sats \ 10 replies \ @supertestnet 26 May

Breedlove's recent Onlyfans Girlfriend fiasco...is proof that this claim is completely nonsensical

Which claim? The post you quoted contains three claims:

You cannot serve both money and God

and

In a debt-based monetary system, it's near impossible to not serve money

and

Bitcoin is Christian money

Are you saying Breedlove's behavior proves one of these claims wrong? Which one?

I haven't investigated whether Breedlove did the things he is accused of but if he did it seems to prove only that Breedlove is a sinner, like all of us

1 sat \ 9 replies \ @pakovm OP 26 May

That Bitcoin is Christian money.

It's a completely moralizing statement, there's no such thing as "Christian money", and owning such "Christian money" that supposedly should make you a good Christian, doesn't do so, there's no correlation between Bitcoin an Christianity other than what some Christian Bitcoiners want to believe.

I think I explain myself enough in the next few paragraphs, maybe I should have worded it differently there.

108 sats \ 8 replies \ @supertestnet 26 May

It's a completely moralizing statement, there's no such thing as "Christian money"

Do you think the Bible teaches any principles about money? If a money follows those principles it seems fair to call it Christian money, or at least biblical money

owning such "Christian money" that supposedly should make you a good Christian

I doubt any Christian would say that owning good money makes you a good Christian, but it does mean you're doing one thing right. It does not imply you're doing anything else right

81 sats \ 7 replies \ @pakovm OP 26 May

By that same rule, there's also a Muslim Money, which would fall into that same category of biblical money, or sacred book money.

And yeah, while there are no instances of Christians saying that you should own Bitcoin to be a Christian, there are instances of Bitcoiners saying that you need to Jesus Christ in your life to be a Bitcoiner 1, 2, 3.

Now, I'm not claiming that doing good deeds makes you a good person (you can replace the word good with Christian, and the phrase still makes sense in this context), but that people think that its does, in this case, doing Bitcoiner (completely arbitrary) things makes you a Bitcoiner, so a part of the Bitcoin subculture falls for this trap.

If i can recall correctly, I've read many comments calling you things for saying that Bitcoin needs any type of change, thus making you "not a real Bitcoiner", people who do this are a minority, but a very loud and obnoxious one at it.

38 sats \ 5 replies \ @supertestnet 26 May

By that same rule, there's also a Muslim Money

I suspect the two religions teach pretty much the same things about money

doing Bitcoiner (completely arbitrary) things makes you a Bitcoiner, so a part of the Bitcoin subculture falls for this trap

I agree that this is pretty silly, and a trap

Bitcoin should not be a cult

But I do think bitcoin matches the (relatively few) financial teachings of Christianity (and probably Islam) and I am glad that books like Jimmy's invite bitcoiners to take a look at Christianity's other teachings too. Bitcoin and the bible are both good for you.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 27 May

I will withhold judgement on Breedlove, but I do find this thread compelling.

But I do think bitcoin matches the (relatively few) financial teachings of Christianity (and probably Islam)

Judaism too, case in point: Proverbs 13:11 - “Wealth gained hastily will dwindle, but whoever gathers little by little will increase it.”

What this Proverb is clearly saying is to DCA and keep stackin'. Stay humble, avoid shitcoins and other get rich quick scams. Amen. 🙏

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @pakovm OP 27 May

As an Atheist I was taught one important proverb from my father: "Don't be an asshole".

Is Bitcoin atheist money?

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @DiedOnTitan 27 May

I was seeking humor rather than offense. I suggest you take your father's advice.

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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Bell_curve 27 May

The Koran or Quran makes collection of interest illegal

162 sats \ 0 replies \ @vulcano 26 May

Bravo!

I've been running away from any kind of "urban tribe" and pigeonholing all my life to fall for this bullshit..

Projecting your lifestyle/worldview on Bitcoin is absurd.

Bitcoin doesn't give a shit if you're a transsexual vegan socialist jew and nobody can do anything to stop someone like that from using it.

Think for yourself and question authority. And the authority on Bitcoin is [Insert-your-favourite-influencer-here].

31 sats \ 1 reply \ @freetx 26 May

Bitcoin won't fix the moral system through its incentive structure as some claim

Technically I agree with you. BTC, in of itself, is not a magic bullet.

HOWEVER, lots and lots of immorality stems directly from the fiat system - specifically because of its fiat nature.

Lets take OnlyFans girls since you mention Breedlove. Obviously its just a form of prostitution and counter to most "strong women" claims, I don't think any woman really wants to whore herself out -- whether or not its just online.

They are doing that primarily because of the broken economy, lack of meaningful opportunities, and inability to be in a committed single-earner marriage (ie. man works, woman stays home).

Humans have a tremendous capacity for self-delusion and rationalization....and whether they consciously realize it or not...I'm willing to bet most cam girls wouldn't do it if they could live a upper-middle class lifestyle as a homemaker.

54 sats \ 0 replies \ @pakovm OP 26 May

I get the point, but correlation is not causation.

I at least know of 2 girls who went the OF route because they wanted and liked it, one studied in my same school when we were kids and was considered the classroom's bitch by many at the time, the other one studied with a friend when we were in the university, they both say that they do it because they absolutely love sex, nothing to do with the money or the opportunities., same as any guy who says that he wants to be a porn actor when he grows up and ends up doing it.

I won't say that there aren't desperate people in that industry, but that has nothing to do with how our money works, after all, prostitution is an older profession than being a bankster and even older than FIAT money.

Not everyone wants a traditional family with kids where only the husband works (I certainly don't want that, nor does my girl), and that's not a consequence of money, but it's because people are different and following traditional values is not an obligation anymore.

21 sats \ 5 replies \ @om 27 May

The Number Zero and Bitcoin ⁹ is still one of my favourite Bitcoin articles, and despite Breedlove's wordsaladism, I will keep recommending it to people

Please don't recommend word salads to people. The article is bullshit starting from the misconception that Babylonians couldn't write any number from 60 and above - they actually could and used a positional system with base 60, they even had a zero digit (not the same as a zero number) but their problem was dropping the trailing zeros.

because Bitcoin and morals have absolutely no relationship other than the one YOU think it has.

I'm not sold on that yet. There is a connection via time preference which is often cited by everyone including Jimmy Song: a lot of morality is about lowering your time preference and one of the purposes of fiat as described by its proponents is increasing your time preference. Consider this from https://github.com/bitcoinbeach/bubbles/bubble-02.md (written by the Bitcoin pioneers from El Salvador):

Hope House's leaders realized that education alone wasn't enough. A human can fill their head with knowledge to attain external success, but to truly thrive, a human needs real purpose. One cannot adopt a low time-preference mindset without pondering eternity and why we are here on Earth. Underlying everything Hope House does is a belief that God designed us with an innate desire for love and connection. Roman likes to describe this as a "love tank"—everyone has one, and filling it is crucial so we're better people when we grow up. A full love tank enables empathy, which enables better families and communities, and the effect compounds and cascades.

Also central to Hope House's notion of spirituality is God, or the idea that there is some superior being out there listening to us and helping us. Everyone should try to connect with this power and harness it on a regular basis.

Practically, Hope House nurtured kids' spirituality through activities like surfing, meditation, and yoga.

I'm not saying that the connection surfing - spirituality - Bitcoin is hereby strongly established nor am I saying that feeding children with word salads about God is a-ok. However, the connection between spirituality and Bitcoin already exists at least as a historic fact, and so you need more than one fallen guy to disprove it.

10 sats \ 4 replies \ @pakovm OP 27 May

This is also an arbitrary connection, remember that morals are subjective, what's moral to some is immoral to others, an easy example to understand is that of women breasts, in europe it is completely normal for women to go around topless in public beaches and community swimming pools, but in America (north, central and south, the whole continent applies this rules) a woman could get fined with public indecency because "it's immoral to be naked in public places", or we could also use a historical example such as that one of the Inquisition, they were all Christians but on the name of their saint cause it was completely moral to ignore completely the mandate "You won't kill" when it came to sins, they all should have been punished to death and the moral framework of the church was enough justification.

One could make the case that hard money in generals let's you focus on the things you like such as your own moral framework, but it's not something that comes with one, is Bitcoin fair money? You bet, is it better money? Of course! But we give it this definitions from our own understanding of fair and better.

I'd be sure that there's some Ethereum maxi out there talking about ETH and spirituality and how it's like water because water is the element of change and Ethereum always changes, thus being a the most moral money because their morla framework is that of constant change.

0 sats \ 3 replies \ @om 27 May

One could make the case that hard money in generals let's you focus on the things you like such as your own moral framework

I think this is actually all that is said. By saying that Bitcoin is Christian money Jimmy Song didn't mean "as opposed to Buddhist money" for example, for him Christianity is simply the familiar moral framework.

For example I can detect that your solution to the question of how could this happen:

Now, how does a person who's considered a philosopher, a good example of American right wing traditionalism, and a Bitcoin influencer, become FIAT AF ¹⁰ out of seemingly nowhere? Simple, he always was this kind of person,

is basically the same one that John came up with (1 John 2:19):

They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

So I can say that your approach is similar to the Christian aproach. However I don't mean "as opposed to the Buddhist approach" because I simply have no idea what would Buddha say in this situation.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @pakovm OP 27 May

This only proves my point, Bitcoin is not moral or immoral, it simply aligns whit people's moral frameworks, and moral frameworks are arbitrary.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @supertestnet 27 May

if moral frameworks are arbitrary then your criticisms do not make sense because that implies Breedlove did nothing wrong, he was just following a different moral framework, all of which (if you are right) are arbitrary, none better than the others

Criticism of someone or something for "bad" behavior only makes sense if some moral framework is not arbitrary

100 sats \ 0 replies \ @om 27 May

OK, when you put it like that I can agree. Wow, we actually had a reasonable conversation over the internet. What a rare sight.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Athena 27 May

Nice post!

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @SilkyNinja 26 May

Rejection of (…) sunscreen

Have fun getting sunburnt!

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @btc_remnant 27 May

I get sun baths without sunscreen, oils or anything, and I don't get sunburnt :)

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @pakovm OP 27 May

There's a big difference between getting a sun bath in Europe when compared to any tropical country.

I mean, for example in Madrid the UV Index right now, with a clear day where you fell that you'll be dehydrated in an hour is 8, which is high, but in Caracas the UV index is 12 which is considered extreme, with less sunlight due to the city being in a valley and always having some clouds you're sure to be sunburnt in 1-2 hours of direct exposure, something that has never happened to ne here in Madrid, not even summer days where I stay from morning to night at the public pool.

If you live in a tropical country the fear of sunscreens is the most retarded thing you can see in your life, it's inconceivable to not use it.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @btc_remnant 27 May

I cannot speak for other countries, but here people put a 1 cm layer of chemicals into their skin, and I don't sunburn without using it, so I guess it's being overused.

Also, filtering some parts of the sun while letting other parts pass thru, is studied to give you cancer, so I always recommend taking the full spectrum.

10 sats \ 2 replies \ @teemupleb 27 May

The anecdotal advice is to apply coconut oil or cocoa butter on the skin to replace chemical-filled industrial sunscreen. Experiment if you wish, not medical advice!

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @SilkyNinja 27 May

Do those offer UVA/UVB protection? I prefer to use and advise people to use zinc, zinc oxide or titanium dioxide.

These are considered physical sunblocks vs chemical sunscreens.

There’s a lot of educational information out there.

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @pakovm OP 27 May

I remember my mom using coconut oil but for tanning, not as sunscreen, the reason being because you couldn't get sunburned from using coconut oil as a replacement. I don't really know how this conspiracy theory works in non-tropical countries, but in tropical countries you'll feel like a piece of shit after a day under the sun with any kind of oil on your skin.

Its just another example of the Appeal to nature logical fallacy, like saying that the Vitamin C found in Oranges is better that the one in Vitamin C tablets/pills just because it's natural, where there's absolutely no difference under a microscope, I mean, there are micronutrients and sugars that you won't find in the pills, but the Vitamin C found in both places is exactly the same compound.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 26 May

Man, I almost wish I were following the BTC world more closely or was on Twitter. This is some serious popcorn-eating.gif stuff to read about.

But yeah, I'm not Christian and I like Bitcoin. Not expecting either of those things to change.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @pakovm OP 26 May

Oh yeah it was a freaking shitshow, pretty fun to watch everything unfold.

Anyways the point is not about Christianity, I actually couldn't give a flying fuck about any religion, it's about the conflating of Bitcoin with some kind of moral system and that going through all of these hoops to be seen as "The one true Bitcoiner" simply makes you a caricature of yourself, doesn't matter if believe in god, Cthulhu, the Powerpuff Girls because none of that will make you a better person.