20 sats \ 21 replies \ @SwapMarket 14 May \ on: Thinking through Cashu bitcoin
Can cashu from one mint be redemeemed for bitcoin in another mint? If yes, anonymous scammers will flood the market with fake unbacked cashus. If not, cushus are non-fungible and the rugpull risk is huge. When I get paid with one, how do I know which mint to go to? What if I can't or don't want to deal with them? I will never accept cashus as payment, they are shitcoins.
Proper non-custodial lightning is already anonymous, decentralized and fungible. A node is not that hard to set up, or anyone can use liquid instead, such as Aqua wallet.
I would suggest trying out cashu.me, Minibits, or Enuts. You'll find answers to your questions by using the protocol.
reply
I went, the only mint at cashu.me is https://www.whois.com/whois/8333.space
Will I send them lightning sats? No.
reply
reply
still, anonymous sites with anonymous ratings. no, thanks, do it without me.
reply
đź‘Ť
reply
Anon spends zero seconds understanding a thing and gets angry. The literal mascot of our times.
reply
In my bio I have a link to a public node of the same name and 4 btc capacity, I understand more than an average bitcoiner. Did you, actual anon, read the disclaimer at the source, since you spent over 0 seconds? https://github.com/cashubtc/nutshell
Here it is:
Disclaimer: The author is NOT a cryptographer and this work has not been reviewed. This means that there is very likely a fatal flaw somewhere. Cashu is still experimental and not production-ready.
reply
If you’re so smart then why is this so hard for you?
99% sure the answer to your first question is yes. Picking mints does require trust, like trusting your local bank will be open tomorrow. Don't want to deal with them, then don't. If someone gave you a nice sized ecash tip, you could ignore it. No harm. Or you could tap redeem and receive the sats. In that sense, you're not really using ecash so much as just accepting says.
Either way, it's fine to not use ecash. We each do our thing as we choose.
reply
I just tested, no. Cashus include the mint url inside them. So you force the receiver of the coins to trust the mint that issued them.
The https://testnut.cashu.space mint issued me coins WITHOUT waiting for the lighting payment (not even with testnet bitcoin). So there is nothing in the protocol that forces the mint to lock up any real sats. Cashus are fiat by definition, worthless unless redeemed.
reply
The receiving wallet can swap the token from the sender's mint to a token from the receiver's mint trustlessly via LN, with all the complexity hidden from the user.
reply
I've been reading and thinking about it. You are the receiving wallet, you try to swap, but the original mint does not respond. Now what? You display an error to the client and reject his cashu coins? Does he have a recourse to the guy who sent him these coins?
reply
This would mean you never received the payment.
reply
So it is not really a bearer asset. It is rather a key to access your bitcoin at a custodial mint. If you give this key to another person he must immediately exchange for his own key or reject the payment. Accepting a lightning payment right away is better UX.
reply
Kinda. It is a bearer asset in that if you lose the token you lose the (claim to the) money.
Accepting a LN payment right away requires online access and interactivity. If you have that then you also can settle the e-cash payment immediately.
reply
Tap redeem where? I need to connect the wallet to a mint beforehand? All mints honor unsolicited redemptions? As I said, they will quickly run out of real bitcoin due to scams. This is a nonsense idea.
"99% sure” does not cut it if you are the one pitching this to others.
reply
"Tap redeem..." not sure exactly and it likely depends on a few factors: which ecash wallet, which nostr client if used, but I did it yesterday. Someone sent me a generous tip, it appeared on Amethyst as a message, I tapped redeem, the sats immediately appeared in my Alby wallet (yes, I know, Alby is custodial too...things likely can to be set up to go to whatever wallet is preferred). I'm not sure the mechanics on your question about unsolicited redemptions? My guess is that the mints trust the Cashu token is truly backed by sats. By "trust" I mean that the mint knows that the cryptography behind the protocol ensures that any ecash token is legit, therefore it's accepted.
I can appreciate your skepticism...that's the bitcoin way and it's healthy. I think most of us are still learning, I certainly am. Maybe someone out there can help me out on the question of whether mint B will redeem a Cashu token from mint A and get me from 99% sure to 100%.
reply
This says it all:
Disclaimer: The author is NOT a cryptographer and this work has not been reviewed. This means that there is very likely a fatal flaw somewhere. Cashu is still experimental and not production-ready.
reply