but it doesn't matter because it can't be stopped.
THIS IS THE END OF PHOENIX, WALLET OF SATOSHI, MUUN
I mean, why would you give your bitcoin transaction history (and IP address) to some random spook / foreign software company?
Ephemeral ecash wallets, connecting to mints over nostr relays, is how spending wallets should work
Lightning is for mint management. Private bankers, in the truest sense.
Cashu requires trust in the mints, so this is a shitcoin, not bitcoin. Monetary base can be easily inflated and cannot be verified.
the point is, phoenix, WoS also require trust. so if you're going to trust parties, trust private parties
Phoenix is self-custodial (although not private). Not sure why put Phoenix and WoS at the same level.
trust not to leak private data that's the point op is making
I agree. The point I am trying to make is that mints are not self-custodial. You are giving away your precious sats in exchange for eSats issued by the mint.
My understanding is that back in the day private banks would eventually end up rug pulling their customers, which led to the creation of central banks. It looks like these mints might end up the same way. I am not enthusiastic about mints.
what is being built is being built for transactions
not for saving
Please let me reframe that:
What is being built is for people who are/will be too poor to open a lightning channel.
Lightning already works perfectly for transactions.
everyone on earth spends money
if you listen or read calle's posts its always about transactions
Or too cheap to open a lightning channel
it's more:
for people who want privacy, offline tx, or programmable money
and if you don't like mints, don't use them
you are totally right and we are all responsible for educating users about this
ecash is for spending, just like starbucks vouchers
don't keep all your ecash on one mint
for saving, you use your own mint, or swap out to on chain
Phoenix / muun are recoverable indeed, that is definitely a valuable feature
WoS, Blink and other CUSTODIAL solutions are fully deprecated by mints
for phoenix / muun the question is whether the privacy aspects are worth it for the faster transaction times (and connectivity / reliability)
Mutiny wallet is also self custodial, would you being putting them in the same level?
No, Mutiny is great, although force closures are a pain
Haven't tried it with Fedi yet
WoS agree, replaces bitcoin with an IOU, like all the exchanges. Phoenix not so, because the channels can be force closed and bitcoins returned in private custody (after fees and time). Phoenix cannot inflate supply of bitcoins.
sure and if you like giving up your privacy and you dont worry about your personal data being harvested then keep using it then more power to you
I run my own lightning node
and give all your data to amboss
All what data? VPN IP? You have no idea what you are talking about. Better trust some random shitcoins from some random npub?
well yes, this is the wider point
with phoenix and muun you have recoverability but no privacy
better to run a private mint
I have started using ZBD again after Phoenix and WoS quit USA.
And mutiny.
But I love the ease of ZBD
or include WoS in your list of shitcoins. and then, go tell that to all the folks using it because they're convinced with their zapathons that their bringing in the revolution
WoS is a great wallet
So is Blink
However, in an adversarial environment, ecash will win
Scamable
and scalable
and rugable
and spendable
not verifiable
Don't need fiat shitcoin specs and bloated mint overhead to leverage Nostr for Lightning
Run Lightning.Pub and fuck the edollar spooks
Mutiny allows you to join a federation in lieu of opening a channel
ShockWallet allows you to layaway a channel with a Lightning Pub
Point?
I don't need to be afraid, I only have maybe 2 dollars
You can run Phoenix with your own node though, which is different to how WoS and Muun work.
Out of the list I've only used Phoenix, and really a great service.
I feel thankful to them for providing that awesome service and fortunate I can use it still.
TBH, I haven't had time to catch up with ecash, but totally love what it purports to be. That said, I don't think there would be such a tool if it wasn't for the LSP development in the first place.
We stand on the shoulders of giants.
Cashu or fedimint or both?
both although we've yet to see a proposal for running a fedimint behind a relay without an IP address
Wildcat banking making a comeback in a big way
Better to give your sats to some random mint. /s
Not sure why put Phoenix and Muun in the same bag as WoS. The two former are self-custodial. The mints are not.
agreed
This is the bitcoin ethos.
muun?