Accelerating Bitcoin Adoption with Affordable Housing \ stacker news ~ideasfromtheedge

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Accelerating Bitcoin Adoption with Affordable Housing

1734 sats \ 8 comments \ @thecommoner 20 Mar ideasfromtheedge freebie

So I have been running with this crazy idea for a couple months now and I can't break it - please help if you can...

I am accepting bitcoin from my tenants instead of USD - I offer them a 50/50 split of any USD appreciation of that bitcoin for up to 6 months after they pay it to me. They are in complete control of when they choose to enact that. That's it...at least the short version... I can't see why this doesn't work in the long-term? I can't see why anyone wouldn't pay using bitcoin if given this option? I can't get this thought out of my head...of course there is a lot more to this topic and if you are interested please read on...

And yes - please feel free to use this concept, adopt it, adapt it, design an app for it...whatever you want? Maybe mention me but I am just a poor schmuck trying to offer value and utilize this technology in a manner that will benefit both myself, the network, and the rest of the world. (I know I should set higher goals)

Anyway if you're still reading here we gooooo:

This idea needs an app to automate it - both the time scale and the % split needs to be adjustable so that it can be used in transactions (txs) both large and small - It also needs to be transparent (the provider of the btc needs to be able to see the receiver has the ability to hold up to their end of the tx whenever the request is made for the (refund, return, credit). This is a sticky point right now due to tax implications I think - whether the business is issuing a credit or processing it as a return or refund? I haven't worked this out yet...

I believe this concept drives or accelerates adoption as "normies" would want to use this app to pay for anything and everything - businesses using the app would be sought out and would be market leaders in providing this benefit to their customers - Now I am going to focus on "affordable housing" as that is my area of expertise and is an area that could really benefit a lot of people in a relatively short time frame.

My tenant that is using this stands to reduce their rent by hundreds of dollars as of today...the rent they paid for using bitcoin in november of last year is worth $728.90 more than when they sent it to me. So right now they could ask me to split it with them and I would provide them $364.45 - when their original payment to me was $855.00 for that month - this is almost cutting their rent in half - now obviously this number will fluctuate given bitcoins value fluctuations but I look at it like this....

They know their financial situation - they know themselves - they can be greedy and hold out for a higher number or they can lock in any amount of credit/return and keep chugging away - it matters not to me as my value is there from the get go, and I make my business cash flow/btc flow decisions based on my books not theirs...

I think the hardest thing for me to get my head around in hatching this stupid plan was basing it on the idea that bitcoins price is going to go up forever... now obviously there is volatility to consider but the way I think about it and we all probably should is that if we truly believe in this technology, we need to put up or shut up - put our money where our mouths are - and truly build businesses that function based on a bitcoin standard and run them with current market conditions taken into consideration. It's a paradigm change from operating in a FIAT world with bitcoin on the side, to that of its a BITCOIN world with fiat on the side!

This gets even deeper if you want to go down another level:

Now we can talk about demonetizing the world's current "stores of value" and how that works as we proceed forward into our BITCOIN world....well there are a lot of peeps thinking this will be scary, crazy, full of chaos and war and uncertainty....and honestly I thought the same - but I couldn't live with "oh well" lets just keep going and see what breaks - I really don't like seeing suffering if it can be prevented - well we bitcoiners need to build the shit that will help prevent that and this is one way I can see that happening...

When/as businesses begin putting bitcoin onto their balance sheets or incorporating it into their business models this demonetization happens automatically - we just needs to ensure it happens in as orderly a manner as we can. We can obviously wait to the world to implode under its own debt and the economy crashes and we have to rebuild everything - or what I believe is happening and am pushing to accelerate - we simply start operating businesses that are bitcoin based and as others around us see it working for us they will jump on board the bandwagon :) As I carry my "reserves" for my properties in btc, I am not having to worry about refinancing my property, or adding superfluous amenities to attract residents and provide more value to them to justify rising rents...Its the opposite - I can let the professionals who run gyms be the gym or whatever and I can actually lower my rent as my btc reserve value increases over time...I don't have to worry about what an appraisal says my property is worth in FIAT terms as I don't have to chase better interest rates or look to pull capital out of the building to pay investors as I can do that from the increased value of my btc reserves? I am sure I could leverage the eff out of it and attempt to squeeze every last FIAT or bitcoin value out of the properties as I can (and people will) but if I want my business to be around for future generations I have to think longer term...I have to think how (Thank you Jeff Booth) if the long term price of manufacturing products always falls to the minimum cost of production - any supposed value of my buildings in FIAT terms is really backwards thinking and won't be there under a bitcoin standard and I have to plan today for the value of my building to fall in bitcoin terms and start providing a different kind of value to my tenants or they will move out and go down the street to the next company that is offering something like this?

This helps solve the affordability crisis in housing - this helps solve the financial despair renters feel from constantly facing rent increases - this helps companies provide a product that is financially viable for the long term and isn't dependent on government subsides or tax credits in order to make the mortgage payment.

Of course this is way easier if you haven't already fallen victim to the FIAT trap of real estate, and haven't leveraged your properties to the hilt... if you have solid financial footing already you can make this transition way quicker than your competitors and you will may even end up growing faster than them and buying their buildings during the upcoming firesale that is certainly coming our way.

If you made it this far - thank you and I hope to read some good comments about how crazy I am and hopefully some constructive critiques about things I may not be taking into consideration.

Thank you,

Jason

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10 sats \ 1 reply \ @StillStackinAfterAllTheseYears 20 Mar

Just have to say that having had some awful landlords, I'm glad ones like you exist. Anything that lets people reduce fiat debt (which I bet your tenant has) and save allows them to start stacking sooner/more.

Did you have to help your tenants onboard with BTC, or were they already using it?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner OP 20 Mar

The one that is currently paying was already familiar and stacking their own btc... While I have spoke to my other 3 residents, they have not yet jumped on board. One of them almost did but then ran into some problems and just got cold feet...it is a couple and I think they may have different perspectives on btc themselves. I haven't really sat down with any of them though to fully explain how it works as I am going through having lease verbiage drawn up so that we all can have a more clear idea on how this process will work in writing to limit misunderstandings... Once I have that in place I am really hopeful that they will all get on board fairly quickly :) I also hope that by talking about it and explaining it to more landlords that it will start to be adopted even more.

10 sats \ 1 reply \ @evanbaer 3 Apr freebie

Interesting.

I admire the spirit here. I am curious how the variability affects things?

Like, what if the tenant chooses to lock in their gains at a certain date, but then bitcoin goes up afterwards?

Also doesn't this expose you to the downside risk if btc price goes down during that period?

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner OP 22 Apr

The variability or volatility is exactly why the realization of the % shared is driven by the customer or in this case the resident... they lock it in when they feel the value is right for them...as for the downside risk. Yes that is all on me as the business owner...but in an ever increasing clown world...my ability to attract and retain residents who are "bitcoiners" is going to allow me stand out above my competition and keep my business running. Those who produce value in BTC terms will more likely be the more stable or less volatile over time....

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner OP 22 Nov

Hello again - It is me - your common ordinary landlord :)

This month was month 13 of this little experiment of mine and I have to say it is continuing to show promise...and work successfully for both myself and my resident.

To date they have saved a little over $1400.00 which is more than one months rent and I imagine that the coming months will likely see them having multiple free or nearly free months of rent.

This little experiment is interesting for regular recurring payments such as rent...because you would think I am going to get wrecked if Bitcoin FIAT price 2 or 3 x's and I am going to have a tenant living for free in a building for years....but here's the thing...when they end up with free months and we limit the time period to 6 months (as I currently am) they still only get a 50% split of the 2 or 3 X and they end up not being able to see any appreciated value for months they didn't pay anything...so I will always "catch up" to them and they will have to pay again within about 6 months or so...of course if the price 10x's or something ridiculous and they lock in - I still have the other side of that exchange as well and so I am still able to operate....at least as of right now...

Anyway - I think I have finally gotten an actual developer that understands Bitcoin and NOSTR and is going to hopefully help me build a web app that can maybe automate this process?? We will see what his "proposal" comes in at... I am not sure that I will be able to afford the total bill but we will see....

More when that comes in....

Thanks for reading....

Please feel free to add to the discussion, tell me why it won't work or what I am missing, or if I am travelling the path less travelled (which is of course the correct one!) :)

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner OP 23 Apr

Here is a longish post going into my thoughts on this a little more...I posted it in FiresidePhilosophy yesterday and figured I would add it to this thread...

I did add to it a little bit due to my having unintentionally grouping all "Rich peeps" into a group and stating they are sure to fuck it up....but you will find the original language and my addition

Ok... so this might get a little long...and maybe its been covered somewhere already? I know I have been talking about for almost a year now and I am not sure when its going to get more traction...but hopefully soon.

This might also ruffle a few feathers but I am really get tired of seeing "bitcoiners" pulling the same shit as the FIAT maximalists and it has to change... While I do agree that everything "bitcoin" is good for Bitcoin in the end - we have and can do better by all those coming after us if we think a little further down the road of the future under a "Bitcoin Standard."

I propose all the "whales" of Bitcoin need to start doing more with "wealth" and truly start changing the future quicker and in a more orderly fashion....as the road we are currently treading down is likely leading to a path of fighting and wars....and I am arguing that can be minimized. (Note-wars/fights are going to happen)

"Bitcoiners" are starting to talk about this...the need to do things differently than FIAT world...the need to look at business models differently...the need to not "hoard" our Bitcoin wealth but rather use it to bring about the change we all want to see and know will be. We just haven't all figured out how to do it yet....

The reason Bitcoin is so popular with us commoners vs the already wealthy is simple....Bitcoin works better as a Store of Value, Medium of Exchange (or will with future layers), and Unit of Account. Those that are wealthy already...simply don't believe it and those that aren't simply can't access its benefits fast enough. This is where we (already in the system Bitcoiners) have to do our part to bring the benefits to the masses before the rich get their hands on it as they are certain to fuck it up! (ADD-ON) ok so not all rich people will fuck up bitcoin...I just think there is an inverse relationship here between those the current FIAT system is working for and therefore they are simply slower to change to something new and better - vs - the less well off, or those struggling to become rich having a deep incentive to understand why they can't break free and to fix the problem...which turned out to be the FIAT system in the first place.

Incentives are a funny thing...they are like a "2nd or 3rd level emergent behavior" and we have to get those right or we are doomed to fight ourselves as we progress toward a bitcoin future...

I don't know about you...but I absolutely believe that Bitcoin is going to be the Future Network that all our worldwide systems are "written" or based upon. When I say all our systems...I mean all of them...this includes each and every shared belief we hold near and dear to our lives...imagine a world with Religions based upon a system that is honest and immutable? Science, Technology, Philosophy....these are all just systems in the end are they not?

Look back through history - all new "systems" governments, monies, discoveries.... they are all based upon views of "REALITY" that most or more closely align with those "Laws of Nature" that have proven themselves to be most accurate?

SO FINALLY THE DOING PART -

Our business models have to change....we have to immediately stop attempting to acquire the most Bitcoin or FIAT or whatever you want to call it and simply find a way to ensure all those who participate in this NEW BITCOIN SYSTEM "no matter their time of adoption" get to share in the benefits of the system along with the earliest adopters. This will require the earliest adopters to check their beliefs at the Bitcoin door and do things differently - not to be read as "Giving away their wealth" but rather to be read as "Sharing with those that have a desire to do things differently but have been stuck in a corrupt system and may not even be able to see or understand their life circumstances due to being solely focused on survival."

I propose a system that shares in the growth of the system over time... I am sharing my "wealth" accumulation ability as I have benefited from the current FIAT system more than some and have been a "net" producer of value vs being a simple consumer of value. I believe all humans have the capacity to be productive - even those we would currently view as "consumers" - it is simply a matter of changing our perspectives on how that is defined.

I share the future price appreciation of Bitcoin (in FIAT terms) with the customers I deal with (I wrote a previous post describing this a little more if your interested take a look at it) - basically though - when my fellow humans pay me rent in Bitcoin - I give them access to 50% of any appreciation in the FIAT value of that Bitcoin for up to 6 months.

It's that simple...and any of us could do this...(of course it would be a lot easier if their was an app that automated the process and kept track of the transactions but writing that program is way above my paygrade (though I am trying to do it-just need the funds and the links to people smarter than me to write it and of course the time)) I say this out loud in hopes someone will jump on this train and run with it...I again say this out loud in hopes that if you are reading this maybe you will take the idea and run with it...I just ask you keep it open source and free for all to use...much like the network it should be maintained by the support of the community and not monetized by those with dollars and thus keeping all from using it.

If this didn't interest you then you might want to stop reading....if it did pique your interest...I am just going to ramble on a little more about this topic and kind of how I think it looks, works, plays out in the long run. I got into this a little bit on a recent podcast with Robin Seyr and on a Webinar through IREM (Institute of Real Estate Management) so here it goes...

My resident paid me about $1000.00 in BTC back in Nov. of 2023 for their rent....they have to realize their "incentive, discount, rent credit, return" by the end of this month.... that BTC has about doubled in price so they are looking at receiving about $500.00 in value back for simply using BTC to pay me. That is equivalent to nearly 1/2 their FIAT value of rent for one month... I believe in Bitcoin this much... I believe the FIAT value will continue to increase over time... I realize their is volatility and as a business owner I manage my FIAT and BTC values to ensure I can continue paying my bills through even the worst case scenarios of an extended prolonged period of decreasing value.... I manage my tax burden (even though I don't want to pay these and predict in time I won't have to due to changes in tax treatment of BTC... side note about tax treatment and this scenario... I work in the Project Based Section 8 Housing world...and if my beliefs are realized...and if other rental companies began utilizing this model - we would eliminate for the need for government funding of housing subsidies to owners/agencies as time goes on...of course depending on how much the FIAT value of Bitcoin goes up this could happen very quickly.... I know I am preaching to the choir here...but I don't understand why I don't hear more governments talking about this, or more lawmakers, or more business owners....???

I haven't over-leveraged myself or my properties....I am able to save every satoshi I am paid in leu of FIAT rent...This allows me to nearly completely demonetize my properties from the FIAT clown world and every BITCOIN WHALE should be funding companies like mine that are operating this business model... The only link to clown world for my properties will be the property taxes I have to pay on them. This will not only help accelerate the adoption of Bitcoin around the world - but at the same time help ensure a more orderly demonetization process of the FIAT value of clown world. I sincerely hope that I have simply been blind to Bitcoin businesses operating in this manner...

This concept gives me the Hope and Belief that Bitcoin will succeed in the end - no matter what - even if we go through wars as long as their are humans left on the planet to rebuild what we destroy - we can and will utilize Bitcoin to ensure abundance for all who are left -

I think like all great ideas/discoveries that things start small with first a few of us - and we are certainly doing that - we (Bitcoiners) have to remember that their is hope - that we have to be the change we want to see - and not get "drunk" on the wealth we recognize as a result of being early adopters to this beautiful and historic future...The discovery of Bitcoin was the beginning to this FUTURE (yes we are all currently in that new future) and we all have a responsibility to make it the best we can.

We now live in a new, undocumented, unwritten history that we must take great care in our handling - our old FIAT mindsets have to be overwritten or we will be doomed to repeat our past mistakes or worse.

Jason S. Hagenow

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Bell_curve 3 Apr

Have your property insurance premiums increased significantly in the last 24 months?

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @thecommoner OP 22 Apr

They most certainly have...but just think about this...as I demonetize the FIAT value of my property and lock in the BTC I receive in leu of FIAT - I will eventually have enough BTC saved to be able to self-fund most insurance costs and likely will only have to be insured against injury to a person...I should be able to escape the need for insuring against property loss altogether.