Nice – excited to see how the deep linking experience is now. I tapped an invoice on my phone the other day and realized I couldn't select Mutiny, likely because I had it installed as a PWA. Looking forward to trying this out! ⚡️🙌
Yes I can confirm this too, on Android works nice the deep links.
I use it in the beginning for testing as PWA but after a while I switched to installed apk.
I had big expectations for Mutiny but unfortunately I had a bad experience like other people I think. After just a few days of using it, my channel was suddenly force-closed and the reason was that I had manually force-closed the channel, which of course I didn't. Later they said that's because probably I had a pending payment and closed the app for a few days and it needed to close, which IMO is absurd. Now it's been almost 2 weeks and my funds are stuck on-chain so I can't use them. I know this is related to their LSP, which is from a third party AFAIK, but now I'm not so sure I want to pay for opening a new channel. I haven't had this kind of issue with other wallets and I've heard this has happened to other Mutiny users too. Hopefully they will find a way to avoid this kind of situations.
Unfortunately it's part of the lightning protocol. Lightning only works because of the timelocks involved. We do what we can, and most channels don't close, but we can't do anything any time soon about a payment that NEEDS to process to completion but doesn't come back online. If it didn't close, funds could be lost. Would you rather than instead? Channels that occasionally close is just part of lightning unfortunately. Cost of being sovereign.
I know that there are trade-offs using Lightning but I never had this kind of issues with other wallets such as Phoenix or my own node. I just think it's disappointing because this channel force-closed after just 5 days, having paid to open it, just because I was trying to zap 21 sats on Nostr and for some reason the payment didn't go through. So don't get me wrong, I love Mutiny for many reasons but this is a really bad user experience.
Phoenix removes almost all parts of a self sovereign lightning experience. I get it, they 'provide the best lightning wallet' at the cost of it only being usable with their node.
Meanwhile your node is probably always online and available to process the payments.
I appreciate the honest feedback and your patience/support, and I agree it sucks. Which is why we've been spending a lot of time on fedimint support. With it, casual low value payments/receives will be processed by a federation with no risk of channel closure or offline payment issue. Meanwhile high valued payments can come out of self custody. It works well, but there's not many federations yet. I hope this changes soon so we can have a good set of trade offs for different use cases.
Thank you for taking the time to explain. I like that Mutiny is trying to offer alternatives and expand the use cases so I guess this is all part of the discovery process. I'm particularly excited about your fedimint implementation. I've been playing recently with Cashu wallets and I'm pretty sure the use of eCash will grow exponentially. I hope to be able to create my own fedimint soon for family and friends.
is mutiny wallet considering a persistent mode for the app, so that nwc zaps can be processed without having to open the app? thank you for the hard work 🫡
"Today, anyone can visit app.mutinywallet.com and get a self-custodial lightning wallet "
How can you say that is self custodial when you push the user to use that single domain and not their OWN Mutiny server?
If that domain goes busted, users are fucked or have to do mental gymnastics to recover that node somewhere else.
At least put a big warning that they should run their own Mutiny server/node for that.
PLEASE do not mislead new clueless users that just download the app without knowing the risks.
love to see it!
This is awesome! Congrats guys
Love mutiny wallet and glad they’re pushing Fedimint as well.
👏👏 more options the better!! Congrats
Nice – excited to see how the deep linking experience is now. I tapped an invoice on my phone the other day and realized I couldn't select Mutiny, likely because I had it installed as a PWA. Looking forward to trying this out! ⚡️🙌
Works for me on Android with SN but iOS has quite some limitations when it comes to PWAs including constraints on deep linking.
Yes I can confirm this too, on Android works nice the deep links. I use it in the beginning for testing as PWA but after a while I switched to installed apk.
I had big expectations for Mutiny but unfortunately I had a bad experience like other people I think. After just a few days of using it, my channel was suddenly force-closed and the reason was that I had manually force-closed the channel, which of course I didn't. Later they said that's because probably I had a pending payment and closed the app for a few days and it needed to close, which IMO is absurd. Now it's been almost 2 weeks and my funds are stuck on-chain so I can't use them. I know this is related to their LSP, which is from a third party AFAIK, but now I'm not so sure I want to pay for opening a new channel. I haven't had this kind of issue with other wallets and I've heard this has happened to other Mutiny users too. Hopefully they will find a way to avoid this kind of situations.
Unfortunately it's part of the lightning protocol. Lightning only works because of the timelocks involved. We do what we can, and most channels don't close, but we can't do anything any time soon about a payment that NEEDS to process to completion but doesn't come back online. If it didn't close, funds could be lost. Would you rather than instead? Channels that occasionally close is just part of lightning unfortunately. Cost of being sovereign.
I know that there are trade-offs using Lightning but I never had this kind of issues with other wallets such as Phoenix or my own node. I just think it's disappointing because this channel force-closed after just 5 days, having paid to open it, just because I was trying to zap 21 sats on Nostr and for some reason the payment didn't go through. So don't get me wrong, I love Mutiny for many reasons but this is a really bad user experience.
Phoenix removes almost all parts of a self sovereign lightning experience. I get it, they 'provide the best lightning wallet' at the cost of it only being usable with their node.
Meanwhile your node is probably always online and available to process the payments.
I appreciate the honest feedback and your patience/support, and I agree it sucks. Which is why we've been spending a lot of time on fedimint support. With it, casual low value payments/receives will be processed by a federation with no risk of channel closure or offline payment issue. Meanwhile high valued payments can come out of self custody. It works well, but there's not many federations yet. I hope this changes soon so we can have a good set of trade offs for different use cases.
Thank you for taking the time to explain. I like that Mutiny is trying to offer alternatives and expand the use cases so I guess this is all part of the discovery process. I'm particularly excited about your fedimint implementation. I've been playing recently with Cashu wallets and I'm pretty sure the use of eCash will grow exponentially. I hope to be able to create my own fedimint soon for family and friends.
i have had this happen with mutiny 😔 and hasnt happened with other node in a phone LSP wallets.
Congrats to yet another feat, this goes to show how great things start small
Wasn't it always available on iOS and Android? So now its just available in the Apple App store and the Google play store.
Yeah -- the tweet even mentions the progressive web app as the way folks were using it before. Putting it in the stores is nice for adoption, though.
Yikes, expensive to set up a lightning channel. How is this calculated? Is it going for the lowest possible fees or the average fee rate?
Looks like a cool app though, I will use it over time!
Channel fee is calculated mostly based on the on chain fees.
How good is this wallet compared to others?
Is not just a wallet. Is a LN node. So apart from the LSP you can also open and manage your own LN channels with other peers.
Here you have a comparison guide of all LN wallets: https://darthcoin.substack.com/p/lightning-wallets-comparison And here you have a more graphical comparison (based on functionalities): https://i.postimg.cc/qvH59JWk/wallets-learning-climbing.jpg
Oh that infographic is nifty.
Well, it's the only wallet that also allows for fedimint funds as well. It's also self-custodial.
How does fedimint work?
Please specify that YOU MUST run your own Mutiny node in order to be self-custodial. Otherwise is not different than Phoenix or WoS.
is mutiny wallet considering a persistent mode for the app, so that nwc zaps can be processed without having to open the app? thank you for the hard work 🫡
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Why bother? Now you are a slave.
Welcome to the walled garden... 😒
I liked you more as a PWA...
its both now
Hi 👋 Yes good post My friend 👍
https://m.stacker.news/19157
How can you say that is self custodial when you push the user to use that single domain and not their OWN Mutiny server? If that domain goes busted, users are fucked or have to do mental gymnastics to recover that node somewhere else.
At least put a big warning that they should run their own Mutiny server/node for that.
PLEASE do not mislead new clueless users that just download the app without knowing the risks.
It literally says "Don't trust us! Use your own servers to back Mutiny."
And every time I've heard them talk about it they've said this.
Sometimes it's like you expect people to engineer FTL space travel before they can walk.
I wonder how many Mutiny users are really using their own server... or just default app.mutinywallet.com
Changing config is fairly, but deployment is tricky. It would be great if the setup would be as part of node bundles like Umbrel:
https://m.stacker.news/19222
I'm SURE anyone who knows HOW, IS using their own. It's the whole reason to run your own (so you can use it), right?
#453267