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510 sats \ 17 replies \ @arrivederci 3 Mar \ parent \ on: Open Borders: The Science and Ethics of Immigration: Caplan, Weinersmith BooksAndArticles
I found a review; the reviewer was not terribly impressed with the intellectual rigour of Caplan's arguments :
But they do go on to somewhat charitably say this :
https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/more-is-more-caplan-and-open-borders/
As to your question :
I think the answer is quite clear.
In an ivory tower.
It seems the foundational disagreement between opponents and proponents of open borders is that proponents tend to reduce migrants to economic units, i.e. workers, and overlook other significant aspects, like their beliefs, culture, etc, while opponents don't, and I personally think they have a point.
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Everyone who passed thru Ellis Island presented a passport showing their name and country of origin
This is how we know the first person to check in thru Ellis Island was a 17 year old female from Ireland 🇮🇪.
We can’t say the same for people entering Arizona California and Texas via Mexico
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Clearly the political class wants open immigration from the third world.
We can deport millions of people like Eisenhower did, operation wet back
We can build a wall like Hadrian and Berlin to keep people out
We choose not to and encourage the opposite
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It's sad if it has to come that far, because deportation is inhumane.
I don't trust governments with immigration policies, I won't trust them to enforce deportation policies either, here's why: there were 11 million French settlers living in the colonies, mostly in Africa. My grandparents and parents traded, went to the same schools with them etc. Where do you think these settlers are today? They were forced out, more or less violently, after the colonies gained their independences.
Lookup 'the luggage or the coffin,' or what Mugabe did with the white farmers.
I'm not implying the US will do the same today, but surely there must be another way?
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I’m sorry about your parents and grandparents in North Africa. Independence is the worst result for third world people.
Regarding illegal immigration, The first and best step is prevention
The worst step is deportation. Maybe incarceration is more humane and effective
Some immigrants commit violent crimes such as rape and murder. What is the humane response?
Have you noticed everyone in academia supports open borders?
What they fail to realize is more money spent on immigration means less money for academic research.
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Caplan should know there is a difference between immigration for jobs vs welfare. Look at sanctuary cities like Denver and New York and Chicago struggling financially
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But at least Caplan has put some effort into developing an argument for 'open borders'. I tried to get @DarthCoin to present his argument for them, after he was spamming a thread with "borders don't matter if you don't believe in them" solipsisms. Here's the thread @ 426129. As you can see, he rather quickly and pathetically retreated into a "I don't owe you enlightenment man" cop-out.
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Major cop out.
I don’t hear undocumented people crossing the Mexican border saying I am a global citizen or sovereign individual.
Even Switzerland 🇨🇭 and the Vatican have borders.
Homeowners or landlords have borders too within a county.
District attorneys and law enforcement are bound by borders.
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Indeed.
I do like what the reviewer I quoted said about reading arguments for open borders being useful even "if only as an exercise in clarifying one’s own thinking about the question". So I would be interested in looking through (but not buying) Caplan's book.
I was hoping to get something of a thoughtful argument from @DarthCoin too, or at least some attempt at rebutting the points I made but yeah, they skipped out. And this was after spamming the thread in multiple places (not just the comment I replied to) trying to push their "free your mind; borders aren't real" line. Very flaky guru vibes.
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