The mother of Michigan school shooter Ethan Crumbley was just found guilty of manslaughter. Do you think the parents should be held criminally liable for their children's actions?
From what I can gather, she was simply being accused of being an absent parent. This seems a step far for me. How do you determine how bad parenting has to be to be criminally liable for your child's actions? Curious to see where this case goes on appeals.
this territory is moderated
What about those "cool" parents that let the teenagers drink at their house, and one of those teenagers leaves in a car and kills someone? Should that parent be charged with some type of negligence?
The thing is prosecution isn't just grasping at straws. They are using existing laws on the books to determine if there was negligence. It appears so in this case.
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she was simply being accused of being an absent parent
she and her husband were leaving the kid home alone while he was growing up so often child services were called. the kid was also acting like this ( from the Detroit Free Press):
Instead of therapy or any sort of help they (the parents) handed this kid a gun.
What did they think he was gonna do?
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But to answer the OP question - yeah, these two definitely should be held accountable. Because they armed this kid, and didn't raise him right other people died- they don't get to just be totally removed from something like this
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @398ja 7 Feb
Agree, we're not only dealing with bad parenting here, this looks like involuntary manslaughter (not sure about the technical term). They will surely be consequences.
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It's an interesting question. We do that with pets.
Civil liability certainly seems reasonable to me.
I support investigating the lead up to school shootings and charging people with criminal negligence if the evidence points that way. That doesn't have to be restricted to parents. It could be pharmaceutical manufacturers who know about psychotic side effects or law enforcement who hadn't followed up on credible warnings or many other parties who may have played a part.
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I think parents should be legally responsible for all their crotch spawn until the age of majority.
Don’t bring up shitty children, or you will pay the price.
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I cannot see being held criminally liable for the actions of another individual ever being a good policy. However, the parents should potentially face charges for child abuse/neglect pending investigation in my opinion.
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I believe that the actions of each individual are individual, it is true that parents may have some responsibility for the child's education or for not having realized before that something was wrong, but I do not believe that they are entirely to blame for their child's actions.
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I haven't been following the story and I can't read the article without signing up. The hype, discussion, outrage or whatever resulting from this trial could provide a convenient narrative for disarming citizens. (I am pretty neutral on guns and I'm not American btw). I'm all about parents taking responsibility for their children!! However, when parents are absent or neglectful in their duties (which will always happen) this leaves an opportunity for other influences and/or potential radicalisation, so I wonder if there are other things at play here.
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If they are your guns then absolutely. I’m all for owning guns but I’m also all for parents outsmarting their kids. If you can’t keep a gun safe locked so that your neglected progeny doesn’t mow down an entire class, then I would call that criminally negligent along the lines of attractive nuisance.
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IMHO, it seems fair. She's responsible for her bad parenting, and should suffer the consequences, legal and/or social, depending on the context. But she cannot be responsible for the shooting, that would be too much of a stretch, and unfair, because people have free will. No matter what he's endured, the child still made the decision to shoot innocent people, and he should have known better.
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Which is why involuntary manslaughter fits. She didn't willingly want this to happen nor was she directly responsible. But her indirect actions and negligence makes her liable which 100% fits the Michigan criminal code for this charge. The sad part is most likely she will be out on parole within 10 years.
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this makes the most sense to me
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @phatom 7 Feb
This shouldn't be followed in every instance as most times, external influences affect the child but it is still bad when the parent doesn't notice it
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The Free Press writes about the incident in their latest release, and yes, the mum was indicted for involuntary manslaughter (life sentence for the son). Here's the sad part:
On the morning of the shooting, school officials wanted Jennifer to take Ethan out of class after they saw a drawing he’d done of a gun and a bleeding human body. “The thoughts won’t stop,” he’d written. “Help me.” Jennifer promised she would take him to a therapist, but in the meantime, she left him at school. Neither she nor the school officials realized he had a gun in his backpack. Hours later, he went on his rampage.
It'd be interesting to know if SSRIs were involved.
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in this particular case the parents were definitely negligent.
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As someone who lives in Michigan less than two hours away from where this occurred, I applaud our attorney general for her involvement in this case. The dad goes on trial for the same charges next month. My state has also passed massive new gun legislation including universal background checks and laws which makes leaving your gun not locked away a crime due to this shooting at Oxford and the MSU shooting.
My state is leading the way on common sense gun legislation and I couldn't be more proud of the three women in charge of our state. And that's what pisses you guys off more than anything, that three women can lead a state more effectively than a man.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @xz 7 Feb
I live in a place where guns are illegal so excuse my ignorance.
If I owned a gun, lived alone, and left it unlocked when cops happen to call round, would I be committing a crime?
I'm just trying to understand how the premise of guns in self-defense works.
Also, how do background checks work?
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @AJ1992 7 Feb
No, you'd only be charged if your gun isn't locked up if minors are present in the household.
Background checks are checks of an individuals criminal and mental health history to ensure they have nothing that disqualifies them from owning a firearm. For instance, in Michigan, another portion of this law disqualifies anyone convicted of misdemeanor domestic violence from owning a firearm now, not just those convicted of a felony (any felony) offense. Also, a mental health history that may indicate violent or unstable tendencies could disqualify an individual.
The burden of checking the individuals background would fall on the seller of the gun. The issue is that people were buying firearms through online gun dealers/websites that weren't required to conduct these background checks.
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Thanks for taking the time to explain.
I'm going to pass judging the pros and cons or whether or not parents need to be liable. Every criminal case needs more analysis than watching a news report and I just don't know the details.
I guess if I lived where you live I'd be inclined to agree with what you say about the situation there, though I'm unsure whether or not these kinds of requirements would need to be tailored on a state by state basis, but I guess that they would and should be.
The personage should always be subordinated from the policy itself. Law makers themselves will be met with approval or disdain. Not saying it's the case here, but it's going to be disproportionate if personality is used to appeal to certain demographics.