4 sats \ 9 replies \ @BlueSlime 16 Jan \ on: Can we make 2-of-3 Multisigs a better user experience? bitcoin
You don't really need to store the derivation path or the script if both follow a well known convention.
You also don't need to remember or inscribe the pubkeys if you do a multisig in the output script. Segwit is optional.
True. But the user experience for moving funds directly to a multisig in an output script is quite poor today. The entire industry is setup to move funds to addresses.
The user experience for my grandmother should be as seamless as possible. If she wants to move funds to and from Coinbase, she should be able to do that directly. To use a multisig output, she would need to type in an address on Coinbase, moving funds to a personal single sig, then make a transaction moving funds to a multisig output script.
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I am not familiar with the coinbase wallet. Do they allow sending coins to a legacy address?
A multisig output script encoded in base58chk is essentially the address.
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"move to X then Y" doesn't sound like a dealbreaker for any reasonable person
Is your grandmother unreasonable?
If so, consider talking some sense into her
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To be clear, this is not a question of reasonableness or security. You can set up a perfectly secure multisig wallet with the technology we have today.
This is purely about the user experience, and making it intuitive for a new person to understand. Bitcoin is complicated enough as it is, but it can be explained in extremely simple terms:
Your funds are stored at an address, which is a location on the Internet no different than the address that identifies the location of your house.
Your funds at the address are controlled by keys. And a key is represented by 12 words (or 24 if you choose).
In a single sig, you need only one key to unlock and move funds, but in a multisig, you can set it up so that you need 2 of 3 different keys. This provides redundancy in case you lose one.
That’s it. And the user experience should match that, at least for the average consumer.
Cold storage is terrifying for most people, but it doesn’t need to be. And there’s no reason why people should be introduced to Bitcoin through exchanges, and only later taught to move the funds to cold storage.
You don’t truly learn about Bitcoin until you take it into your possession, and we should develop an outstanding user experience that matches that behavior.
Again, this isn’t about what’s reasonable to ask someone to do. The burden is on us to create the most beautiful, simplistic, and dare I say magical user experience that could possibly exist. Technology should be like magic, and Bitcoin should be no different.
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You don’t truly learn about Bitcoin until you take it into your possession, and we should develop an outstanding user experience that matches that behavior.
And "move to X then Y" is not sufficiently magical and outstanding in your opinion?
Things might improve a bit if coinbase supported "bare" multisig addresses
That would eliminate the middle step, though I still maintain that if your grandma is "scared" of a middle step then she is not being reasonable. Consider calmly and rationally explaining to her why the middle step is there ("coinbase doesn't support this address type" -- see? it takes 6 words) rather than acting as if she is incapable of doing anything other than a one click experience, or incapable of overcoming irrational fears
The burden is on us to create the most beautiful, simplistic, and dare I say magical user experience that could possibly exist
No, that is an unnecessary and overburdensome task. No one needs an experience that perfect because good enough is good enough, and since no one needs that perfect experience, no one needs to build it.
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I disagree that we should be ok with a user experience that requires human onboarding.
Sure, I can explain to my grandmother how to move funds to a multisig output. My grandmother trusts me, and I can explain things simply enough that she can mostly follow along.
But not everyone has that. We should be making consumer experiences that are seamless to use, and seamless to understand. Bitcoin self-custody should be self-serve, and it should be designed in a way that is simple to understand.
Step 1) Write down 3 seed phrases
Step 2) Create an address to receive funds
Step 3) Move funds from Coinbase to that vault’s address
Anything more complicated than that makes it scary for a first time user to follow, unless they have a person they know holding their hand.
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Who is going to tell her to do step 1? That person can also tell her to do this alternative process:
Step 1) Write down 3 seed phrases
Step 2) Create bare multisig address
Step 3) Move funds from Coinbase to site that supports bare multisig
Step 4) Move funds to bare multisig address
Anything more complicated than that makes it scary
It is an irrational fear and you can help any first time user overcome it easily
I disagree that we should be ok with a user experience that requires human onboarding
There is no service anywhere that does not require human onboarding. They all require human onboarding. Literally, every single one, there are no exceptions. That one you're thinking of that might be an exception? Yeah, that one requires human onboarding too.
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A good consumer product does not require human onboarding.
The consumer downloads the app, and the rest should be seamless and intuitive to follow, walking the user through the onboarding process step by step in a way that does not require outside human intervention.
You’re correct that this application could tell the user to send funds to an address, and then once received, to transfer those funds to a multisig output. But that’s not intuitively how a vault should work. It shouldn’t require a special application to move funds into, with an intermediate location before they can be moved.
The consumer is taught that funds are stored at addresses. This is analogous to bank accounts and easy for the consumer to pick up. Why break that analogy if we don’t need to?
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A good consumer product does not require human onboarding
Literally all consumer products require human onboarding. Even the phone your grandma is using required human onboarding
The consumer downloads the app
Someone showed her how to download apps, she didn't get it on her own
the rest should be seamless and intuitive
Learning to use a phone wasn't seamless and intuitive. Neither was opening her first bank account. Neither was learning to clean a home, or do a job, or manage an office, or brush her teeth. Many things are worth doing even though they are not seamless and intuitive to learn, and you make mistakes along the way. Bitcoin is like that.
Expecting bitcoin to surpass all other consumer goods before you'll recommend it to someone seems silly and unnecessary. If there is some aspect that isn't seamless and intuitive, that's fine, that's life. Teach your grandmother. If she can open a bank account, she can move money to an intermediate address. It's not hard, and it's only scary the first time.