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I was reluctant to make this post, since I am sort of superstitious and I don’t want to attract negative attention to my favorite virtual hangout. I’m a natural pessimist, so it goes without saying that I hope my fears are unwarranted.

Territories Upheaval

I have embraced territories with both hands. I have three right now. I believe this innovation can go far to further bitcoin adoption. The potential is immense, and that’s what worries me.

SN Centralization

For all its cutting edge incentives and tech creativity, Stacker News is in essence a web site. Even more worrisome, it’s a web site based in the U.S. It has transformed overnight from a small clubhouse for us all to learn and discuss bitcoin into a chaotic, growing, and potentially very profitable business. It’s only a matter of time before U.S. three letter agencies will be snooping around, and maybe visiting Austin, subpoenas in hand, if even just to let their presence be known. This will almost certainly be the case if Stacker News is as successful as I think it can be. I know the principals of SN to be the most honest, decent people in the world. They would not violate the law. That’s not the point. I don’t trust the government. I would feel much better if SN was headquartered in el Salvador. The web site is an obvious point of vulnerability. I know there has been talk of non custodial wallets, nostr integration, etc, which will go a long way towards allaying my worst nightmares.
As it stands now, those who run the site have no control over what’s posted, and by whom. I don’t want to delve into the possibilities here and risk giving anyone any ideas. Owners cannot police their own territories. I know things will improve. I know the roadmap has not been made public, but this interim phase can be dangerous. I’m glad to see that there’s been an emphasis on legal lately. Still, just declaring some activity as “against the terms of service” does not absolve Stacker News of liability. I hope this post is overly paranoid. I hope Darth mocks me for being fearful of the guvs. I just don’t want to wake up one morning and find that the site has been seized.
This is why we are exclusively focused on legal right now. We see potential in SN and want to make sure we aren't doing anything illegal by anyone's standard.
Owners cannot police their own territories.
As the proud owner of three territories, what kind of policing tools would you like to have?
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Honestly, I prefer your method of a basic live and let live approach. I'm not asking for the ability to censor. I like the idea of a more decentralized SN where no person or entity (namely you and me) can be held responsible for the actions of people we have no control over. I don't want to be a cop, and you don't either. That's really the best thing about nostr, but SN just functions so much better.
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sir we are using social cowboy credits here https://i.postimg.cc/Kz5LgbVL/social-points.jpg
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If we have to go an in game currency route (which is the last resort) to be compliant, I'd prefer either doubloon or scrip.
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For me is simple.... But yeah many people cannot see clearly like me.
In order to claim ANY jurisdiction or authority over bitcoin, you must provide any proof that you are the owner or creator of those bitcoin.
They cannot do that and they are just playing a game with people's mind.
Recently I posted a comment about this aspect. I suggest to all people to pay attention to it. #332759
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This site is my entire life. I literally have nothing better to do or anything I'd rather do.
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I remember your first announcement, was kind of shy announcement to invite people to try this crazy thing...
I said, what the heck is this, but hey is using sats! I cannot ignore this shit. Then I saw you put a lot of work on it.
I even had a talk with fiatjaf about it and he laugh about telling me: "oh yeah you are interesting in that thing SN, not sure if he gonna make it" (or something like that, you know how is fiatjaf...denying everything)
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Is there any way accounts use their own third party (phoenix, blixt)LN wallets?
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I think ShockWallet could be a solution https://www.nobsbitcoin.com/shockwallet-lightning-pub-alpha/ but is still in early beta. Looks promising.
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Short answer: yes, third parties, whether compliant custodians or non-custodial wallets, are how we can still use real money on SN compliantly
Extension of answer: all third party options come with tradeoffs. e.g.
  • Most compliant custodians that allow us to "connect" to them all have customers they can't serve even in the US, e.g. NY residents.
  • mobile non-custodial wallets, even ones trying to serve SN-like use cases, can't send payments instantly and are even more difficult to receive payments to
Basically, no third party is a 100% solution to what we need if we want everyone to be able to use SN easily and cheaply. Still, we are excited to become customers of these third parties because it will help these solutions get better.
We are pretty far along on our thinking on this. We just need to consult with a few more groups first before cementing our plans. I'll share those not-yet-cemented plans on SN for feedback in a week or two.
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Great information. I looked into the "money transmitter" possibility, and I'm less concerned, at least as between SN and individual stackers. I'm sure you guys have lawyers looking into everything, and especially regarding the particulars of how fiat is converted to bitcoin internally.
Sorry but I have to remember you again: I've told you so many times... implement the fucking LNDHUB and that's it!
How many times I have to be right until people take in consideration my advice?
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They both played the obedient shitizen card. Ross also was a patsy, they framed him.
Let them come to me... I know how to deal with this shit. That is a difference between a sovereign individual and a citizen...
When you are in this fucked up position, you are the one having them by the balls...
but yeah... if you play by the lawyers game... you always lose IT'S ALL A FUCKING THEATER, A GAME. But people are so afraid even to see the fucking truth.
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sorry but I do not speak from my ass, just for talking. I was in several times in that court room and I OWNED THEM, I got them by their own balls. This is serious stuff that very few here pay attention. I am tired to repeat myself: there are ONLY COROPORATIONS. CORPORATIONS run only by the contracts, not by laws... Laws are for clueless slaves. STUDY UCC.
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Exactly right. I should have included that in the post
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I wonder when a crazy lawyer goes into supreme court and challenge this stupidity of "money transmitter" license... that only exist in US.
Damn it guys, should I do that?
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It’s only a matter of time before U.S. three letter agencies will be snooping around, and maybe visiting Austin, subpoenas in hand,
SN might want to put up a Warrant Canary - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrant_canary
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not bad idea!
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SN became even more interesting (if that's even possible) the moment territories released. Truly breaking new ground in social media. The big thing I think is how it's created an organic competitive market for the users to sort out. And the barrier to entry has never been lower to participate.
The obvious chaos that the freedom of territories creates will naturally filter out and refine over time. We'll be left with some awesome interesting subs to talk about, and the discussion should naturally broaden in a way that feels conducive to the greater goal of SN (probably not nsfw titty pics..)
Opens the gates for more users and more touchpoints for them. All around very exciting :) But yes scary lol.
Not sure how it all legally works out. But consider the day the gov comes knocking very bullish for SN -- much like Bitcoin
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You have a nice, soothing optimistic take on things, birdeye. It couldn't have come at a better time. I was just spiraling down an ugly "what if?" filled abyss.
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The rain and the sunshine, both are necessary! Can save me from the naivete i may naturally lean towards. Seeing Bitcoin win though has me bullish on truth in general winning out in the end.
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Someone had to say it
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lmao true
ross was doin something right!
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Your post is very well to be concerning. I will not mock you to be fearful of the govs. That's good, because you you are in alert. Being in alert doesn't mean your are a statist or "order follower". It means you know WHO is the danger and you try to fight it.
I had some kind of the same reaction like you. And that's why I didn't post too much anymore, especially on other territories. Not because I should be afraid. You know me now that I don't give a shit about any gov agency in the world. I was worried like you said... next morning this wonderful hangout site is gone.
You are right, SN could find ways to host this place in a more distributed ways, maybe IPFS, I don't know if that is possible.
But yes, hosting it on a different jurisdiction could solve temporary. The sad thing is that the whole internet domain system still depend on a handful of people in US, by ICAAN.
So even if I would say: host SN on my own Darth servers (yes, I have privater servers for my private stuff) and use my "jurisdiction"... that is not enough. There's still many ways to shut down a website.
In the end, yes, I agree with you.
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i want your mountains darth.
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you already watch them from the skies...
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ugh i need better opsec
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Thanks for weighing in. A very long time ago I was asking questions about domains, and you mentioned a few that were "no kyc." Like you said, though, there is still the ICAAN problem. I don't remember the details, but wasn't there mention at some time about hosting a site using bitcoin? Maybe this was just some inscription bullshit, or was it LN? Does this ring a bell, or did I dream it!
This is why I am apprehensive about having betting on the sports sub. Even if it's peer to peer. I would never want to put the SN team in a position where they could get into legal hot water. I don't think the FBI is breaking down the doors because of a football pool but I think we need to be mindful we don't cross any lines as things grow.
And no I am not being a statist cuck. I am just trying to be conscientious and respectful of the SN team. I know we all hate big bad google and all recognize their mantra "do no harm" was just an empty platitude but as territory founders we should aim to promote a culture of "do no harm" to the broader SN site in our territories.
This message will self destruct in....
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This message will self destruct in....
The solution is not to be scared shit... The solution is to CONFRONT evertything. You build a house openly not by hiding...
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That was a joke I am not actually self destructing the message sir
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good. At least you learn something. FUCK'EM'ALL
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You build a house openly not by hiding...
Absolutely right. I really was reluctant about posting about this at all, hoping I wasn't doing more harm than good.
BTW, thanks but unnecessary :)
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I have thought about your situation more than you might imagine. Very wise red line with pools. The government mafia will protect their turf.
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I think I know what you're saying.
Since the territories, the possibility of Agent Provocateurs has been a concern for me.
(I'd set this reply to auto delete if I knew how...)
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Deleting posts is not the solution... I really hope more FBI agents will read my posts and learn something FFS
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Yes, I appreciate the head spin that this one suggests.
But, for me, APs on SN are still a worry.
Care to allay my fears?
(I'd set this reply to auto delete if I knew how...)
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I want to add some simple things to this:
Not the government or laws are to be afraid... BUT THE FUCKING COROPORATIONS!
EVERYTHING IN THIS FUCKING WORLD IS BASED ON CONTRACTS.
Simply go for the strict contracts with service providers. With strict rules for insurances... to get them by the balls. Govs are doing whet CORPORATIONS say!
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