pull down to refresh

deleted by author

I find this article quite stupid. The imperative and paternalistic tone is childish.

DCA-ing is a way of entering Bitcoin. Lump-sum is another. Not buying Bitcoin at all is another. Going all leveraged is another.

They all have advantages and disadvantages. Different people with different lives, needs and financial plans should take different courses of action according to what suits them better. Telling the whole world "do this one thing" seems very much arrogant.

I think you could have made a "The issues of doing DCA in comparison with the lump-sum strategy" with 80% of the content you have here and I would have enjoyed it a lot. But, in my opinion, you ruined it with that tone.

reply

I agree

Statements like

First and foremost, dollar-cost averaging reflects a fiat mentality. If you view Bitcoin solely as an investment and are concerned about "maximizing profits" it suggests a lack of understanding of Bitcoin, and very likely you will sell-out back to fiat as soon as the fiat price skyrockets.

makes whole good articles "taste bad" since they seem to not be written in good faith / very biased.

For me, DCA is a risk management strategy. It's not about max returns. It's about human psychology and spreading out your committment over time instead of taking a leap of faith and potentially getting burned and scared and selling at a huge loss because you've your life savings getting evaporated and want to cut your losses.

Trying to frame DCA as a "fiat mentality" seems to completely miss this point.

reply

Indeed.

For example, if I'm a father of four, DCA-ing my wealth over 4 years might make more sense than lumpsum-ing for me to enter Bitcoin, even if I eventually want to end up all-in. Because I can't afford my net-worth to ever go below, say, 50% of what it is today, without putting my family's day to day material well-being on risk.

Just a random example. You could make another one the other way around showcasing how for someone else it makes all the sense to forget about DCA and just go balls in. I mean, I'm not the best example of caution and you know it :)

reply
I mean, I'm not the best example of caution and you know it :)

I know and I did a similar thing as you :)

Just don't know who started first, haha

reply

deleted by author

reply
Holding/spreading fiat poses a higher risk than holding Bitcoin, especially if you live in countries with high inflation rates.

Good point. But I know that my monthly costs are "fixed" in EUR. Fixed in quotation marks because of inflation, as you mentioned.

But I would say I live in a country where the inflation is more predictable than the price of bitcoin.

So I'd rather play it safe and hold funds in EUR that I have to spend in EUR (@DarthCoin responding in 3, 2, 1... lol) anyway.

We might agree that DCA is a short-term risk management strategy?

Sure, I can go all in at the peak and be in a loss for two years, who cares?

You should care since you potentially can't eat or have a shelter for these 2 years if you really did go all in

Something lost in communication may be that one can be 99% in bitcoin but still DCA and hold emergency funds.

Is that not "basically" all in?

Here's my .02 -- a lot of @Onions post have the general vibe of "Here is the truth and the one right way, and if you don't share this perspective you're a fucking idiot, HFSP lol".

And maybe that's really how you do feel, @Onions, and if so, that's fine, you do you. But I personally find it so tired and so off-putting. JFC, does the space need more know-it-all aggressive assholes? Is there anything that is in greater supply in btc than that?

About some people, I wouldn't even bother to say anything. They're mimetically sealed, they're locked into that identity. But I get the sense that you could take a different approach, if you wanted. And the btc space would benefit if you did.

reply

It's not feelings, it's math, moron.

Yes, the space needs more aggressive assholes who know-it-all rather than friendly open-minded people who do not know. https://twitter.com/w_s_bitcoin/status/1625597728385380352

Have fun having less bitcoin. Advocating for people to trade dollars to have less bitcoin is literally slowing down bitcoin adoption and pumping dollars. Maybe if you DCAers had not been so innumerate, OP would not have had to write this!

reply

Yea was close-minded.

reply

Just math.

reply

deleted by author

reply

I'm very confident your intent is good, but I have to tell you it's quite confusing to have someone make an article titled "You Shouldn't DCA Bitcoin", with the sentence "No DCA-ing, go all in on Bitcoin as soon as you can." as TLDR, only to afterwards say that they recommend people to DCA.

I would personally reconsider the way you deliver the knowledge. The spirit is good but this approach could wreck a lot of confusion on people...

reply

deleted by author

reply

My feedback would be that nuance is missing

Don't push an agenda. We already have MSM for that.

Show that you have compassion for the people you don't agree with and try to understand their fears, problems, etc.

Not saying that you don't have and don't understand, but it doesn't show.

reply

I'm glad this helps, looking forward to seeing more content.

reply

Doesn't everyone with a regular income DCA?

I would say I DCA, because I always put a chunk of my paycheck into bitcoin.

But maybe it's DCA because I don't do it at once. I spread it out over days. I like to buy dips.

Edit: Oh, @TNStacker also mentioned this here

reply

Why should people who don't understand bitcoin buy any bitcoin? You believe in actions being take based on authority?

reply

Fiat is heading towards zero, people need to study Bitcoin.

I normally don't tell normies to buy btc, but rather to study it.

reply
reply
I agree with you, and that's what i recommend newbies do.

This is fiat mentality. I got you ! 😂

reply

If one is converting to Bitcoin on payday, they are DCAing regardless. If one makes a lump sum with all their savings at a cycle top, they will be very disappointed in this method, and possibly negatively impacted for 2-3 years.

Not financial advice. Do your own research.

reply

That's not what DCAing means. Stop conflating terms and creating FUD like a fiat psyop.

They will be disappointed? Maybe they should just have a fiat savings account, you can too.

reply

What point do you make saying something is not DCA, and then not defining it?

Dollar Cost Averaging. The definition is in the terms. One averages the cost of dollar purchases/exchanges over time. Like with weekly or monthly paychecks.

What is YOUR definition?

reply

It is very obvious that it means when you have a chunk of savings whether to divide it across a number of regular periods, or lump sum. Obviously not related to "salary DCA"

reply

The source of one's dollars in dollar cost averaging is irrelevant

reply

deleted by author

reply

Oh personally. I see. We should've using your personal definitions then. Got it. My bad.

reply

deleted by author

reply

Sorry if this comes across as rude, but this is beyond fucking stupid.

I guess you must be super wealthy or something, and thus it's of no concern to you to be worried about how much Bitcoin you're actually getting when you acquire more of it.

Personally? I'd much rather have more Bitcoin than less of it. Very strongly doubt that I'm in the minority when it comes to having that preference, either.

I swear, some of you have allowed your hatred for fiat currency and your advocacy for Bitcoin to turn into a delusional fanaticism. People like yourself, with this kind of attitude: your elitism, your condescension, the smug self-righteousness -- all of it...you are ultimately doing a much better job of pushing people away from Bitcoin than bringing more people into the fold.

"Hey you, Mr. Joe Average -- yeah, I'm talking to you, fiat using loser pleb! You should take your entire paycheck, hell, take all of your savings and buy Bitcoin with it, right now. Sure, it might tank 10% in a day, but who cares? At least you're not using FIAT! You need to adjust your time horizon, newbie!"

Give it a rest, jesus.

reply

Going all-in is better than DCA-ing. It's just math. Read part 2 and wait for part 3 where i will go more in depth. If you don't get it after part 1, 2 and 3, then have fun staying poor.

Actually, you are the fucking elitist piece of shit telling people bitcoin is dangerous because you're an emotional little bitch.

Have you even checked how volatile bitcoin is on a daily basis? It actually isn't. It goes down for people with mid term savings as I explained in El Salvador a few days ago. On a daily basis, if you are ACTUALLY POOR, then you are living paycheck to paycheck and the price doesn't have time to move on you, so stop being a dumbass.

Stupidity and inability to recognize the nature of how things works is the number one thing that slows down bitcoin, and when you do so with arrogance, you can be sure I will respond with the same vehemence and vitriol I would use on a shitcoiner, because you are in my way, and in the way of the beautiful world that is coming when you do that.

It is, but you don't have to call it that. You really don't. Call it Bitcoin cost averaging.

You can call 2+2 multiplication, but it is still addition, and it is still 2+2. However, you can call it 4.

reply

I agree. I don’t consider it DCAing if convert fiat into bitcoin as soon as you get the money. My thought is that if you got $10k bonus today, lump sum would be you go and buy $10k worth of bitcoin. If you instead got $10k but decided to spread out purchases to $1k a month, that would be DCAing. Everyone is averaging the cost of the dollar purchases unless you have no income or money coming in and truly do a single lump sum purchase with absolutely everything you have.

reply

Never go back to fiat. Once you convert all your fiat stash in BTC, just keep it as it is or use it as money. If you regret because you bought at x price... you are anyways a loser because your mind is still thinking in fiat. That's all.

reply

This. If your goal is to acquire as much Bitcoin as possible there's only two ways to do it. You can either perfectly time the market and buy the bottom (which we all agree is difficult). The next best thing is DCA (which is easy, even an idiot can do it and it doesn't require luck) It's mathematically provable.

reply

deleted by author

reply

I bought at 60k and I bought at 17k. I got a lot more Bitcoin at 17k.

That is all.

reply

WRONG AND TERRIBLE FINANCIAL ADVICE.

As much as fiat is hated LEAVE YOURSELF FIAT LIQUIDITY FOR EMERGENCIES.

DCA HELPS KEEP YOU LIQUID BY SPREADING YOUR AVERAGE COST OVER TIME.

LITERALLY NO DISADVANTAGE TO DCA.

reply

LEARN BASIC MATH YOU ARROGANT FUCKING IDIOT

view on twitter.com
reply

You keep posting this retarded fucking link thinking it's proving your point, it's not.

For fuck's sake, they're using a DAILY "DCA" versus a "lump sum and hold for 3-4 years" comparison. No one is buying Bitcoin daily and considering it "DCA", first of all, the fees alone on that would be ridiculous. Secondly, the price variations day-to-day combined with making a smaller purchase amount on a per-day basis are OBVIOUSLY going to have a smaller return versus purchasing a larger amount on a weekly, bi-weekly, or monthly basis (combined with the larger variation in the BTC:USD price).

I'm not even going to waste my time writing out the math on this. There's a reason why the person who posted that twitter link you keep spamming the thread with, disabled replies to their post.

So no, how about YOU learn some basic fucking math?

reply

You sound mad. Relax?

reply

God damn, you are insanely fucking stupid if you think monthly would look any different. Oh, you think you can just buy the bottom of each month? 🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡🤡

You are one of those "hodl, consume it, or lose it" coiners. You are the misallocator of capital whose idiocy bitcoin will protect us from.

Where did i say to not leave fiat liquidity for emergencies? I will wait. Take your time.

reply

Sorry I couldn’t hear you, could you speak up?

reply

Tell that to those who went all in above 65k. DCA is good for stress free investment in trending markets like Bitcoin. DCA may be bad in other markets but it is specifically good in Bitcoin.

reply

Stop being innumerate! Learn to count!

view on twitter.com
reply

deleted by author

reply

Sadly, I cannot de-zap you - I accidentally zapped this comment, and I'm just pointing that out because this is a fucking idiotic comment and I would never have done so intentionally.

"$16K or $65K, doesn't matter, it becomes insignificant in the long term" -- yeah, tell that to people who are financially struggling and have bills to pay.

You do realize that what you are saying in your post here is actually advocating for DCAing, no?

reply

Read part 2. And gtfo shitcoiner.

reply

Yes I agree and I do the same. But it is not easy to do that. You may be lucky and many end up stressed and with a need to constantly check the charts. Some people prefer to set it automatically and forget about it.

reply
many end up stressed and with a need to constantly check the charts.

Once you have a solid understanding of Bitcoin, the fiat price becomes less significant. My best advice for newbies is to adopt a long-term mindset (5+ years atleast) and avoid constantly checking the price (bad habit). You can begin by modifying the top section of the page:

https://m.stacker.news/5057

reply

Good website to compare lump sum with DCA. https://www.nakamotoportfolio.com/apps/dca_sim

reply

Not everyone has a big pile of cash to buy bitcoin.

Buying slowly will accumulate the most bitcoin without the stress of FOMO or forced selling or trading

OP is a moron

reply

Read part 2.

reply

DCA is a shitcoin. Why would I hold dollars for any period of time when I am able to instead hold Bitcoin?

reply

deleted by author

I’m DCA-ing into bitcoin by putting my paycheck into it every week. That seems better than trying to save up fiat and time the market 🤷‍♂️

reply

TL;DR -- author spent MORE time writing a post trying to debunk DCA, than he did learning what DCA is

reply

TL;DR - you dont know math. See part 2 and wait for part 3.

reply

I read the post before I commented.

I don't know anything about you, but I'd be willing to bet that you've obviously never worked in professional financial services.

Your 2 points in the "what should I do instead?" Section are laughably stupid...

  1. Point 1 is quite literally pitching exactly DCA, you're just pretending it's something new other than DCA, for your narrative.
  2. Point 2 is dumb and reveals your ignorance about the finance industry.

On 1. Isnt that still DCA but by a different name. I speak as someone who swaps a steady amount of every fiat mine reward every time. Get paid, pay bills, buy food/gas then leftover in bitcoin

reply
On 1. Isnt that still DCA but by a different name.

I'm not entirely sure. It's not necessarily based on a specific interval (daily/weekly/montly), but rather on the principle of "as soon as I receive fiat, I convert it to Bitcoin.

reply

Dump my full paycheck into bitcoin and DCA into fiat for bills....one of these days thewildhustle will pay all bills with bitcoin and be done with fiat for good

reply

Left out the emotional side of it, most people operate on the level of a child and can't handle big value swings.

reply

I make a monthly ECA in bear markets, and it has been working well. I also buy occasionally in bull markets. The issue of transaction fees is important, and I have thought about it a lot. I have been paying about 1% in fees on each purchase.

reply

deleted by author

reply

It's 1% in Bitcoin at the time of purchase 😆 Fees are everywhere ...

reply

What is the goal of the Bitcoin revolution? To give people back the power over their money, of course, but even more importantly, to teach people to make their own decisions.

Don't Trust, Verify.

So the important thing is not to tell others what to do, but rather to educate them to decide for themselves.

The key is not to say "You must do DCA or not," or "You must buy Bitcoin or not," but rather to help them understand the why of Bitcoin and present the options available to them to protect the fruits of their labor.

After that, it's up to each individual to choose the best option according to their needs, objectives, and profile.

This means that if someone who has spent time studying the whys and wherefores of Bitcoin decides not to embrace this revolution, there's no point in criticizing him or her since it will be their choice. That person has the power and can exercise it as they wish, even if it means rejecting the Bitcoin revolution.

reply

Lol. What a load of BS this is.

The one and only recipe is that there is no recipe.

My advice is: make your own path, don't follow anyone's stupid rules regarding how you allocate your income or your savings.

reply

deleted by author

MY MANNN!! You could have said it easier: "just fucking LIVE on Bitcoin!" :D

reply

I only DCA because I must have some shitmoney in case I need to use to pay some emergence things. I would prefer to convert all my fiat in BTC asap.

reply

Don't take extremist opinions too seriously. I'll cut off my pinky finger if they only have bitcoin. 😆 Ahhahahhh

reply

Stupid post. Pretty much all arguments are wrong. DCA is perfect (and the best solution) for most people, espcially newbies who want/can only small amounts.

reply

No, you are stupid and can't do arithmetic. If bitcoiners are this retarded, the fiat world will die slowly. https://twitter.com/w_s_bitcoin/status/1625597728385380352

reply

"All arguments are wrong", care to explain? What part of fiat is certain to lose value over time and bitcoin is certain to go up in value over time, is wrong? Why would you hold something that you know is losing value (specially if you live in a country with high inflation) and only convert small chunks of it to Bitcoin every week/month?

Mr. guy with "exploring crypto since 2014" in his bio

What is the problem with tiny UTXOs? Bitcoin is bitcoin is bitcoin, right?

reply

If you have really tiny UTXOs, the value in fees required to transact them can be higher than the value of those UTXOs it self. You must learn UTXOs or you will get rekt.

reply
"If your goal is to allocate a specific percentage of your paycheck to Bitcoin each month, what you should do is sell your fiat shitcoin and get Bitcoin immediately after receiving your paycheck."

That's literally a DCA. Taking a specific % of your paycheck and using it to buy bitcoin is DCA.

reply

No. Its not DCA. Its "Smash buying whenever fiat available". See part 2 of this post.

reply

Yeah this is pretty face value imho. Do what you want to do with you fiat shitcoin, either lump-sum in or DCA into bitcoin. Who actually cares? Live your own life dude

reply

Retarded comment.

reply

you 5 years old homie?

reply

Imagine having a superiority complex where you feel the need to tell people what to do with their lives...

reply

Please detox from this stupidity

If you go in all at once, then it is much harder to hold when the price dips.

The first thing to do is to learn about bitcoin. When you feel like you know enough to explain why bitcoin is unique and is the digital currency that has durable value, then you are ready to invest in Bitcoin for the long term.

reply
it is much harder to hold when the price dips.

????????????????????????

reply

Ha ha. Do the Bitcoin thing however it best suits you.

reply

The premise of the problem is biased. The problem is: Given that I know Bitcoin is the hardest money, but I earn my paycheck in fiat currency, which is the strategy that maximize my ownership of Bitcion. DCA is the answer.

reply

Earn it or mine it.

Buying it is cheating 😉

reply

If you hate fiat so much then take any other hard asset, house, car, food and guess what happens. Bitcoin is volatile against all these. And it is ok. It is perfectly fine to dca your favorite asset eg into longterm money battery which is bitcoin.

reply

"...go all in on Bitcoin as soon as you can..." Dude, that's a definition of DCA.... You tripping... just saying...

reply

If you are allocating a certain percentage of your paycheck monthly to Bitcoin that is DCAing.

reply

You are using the DCA approach but without the tool (fiat), put bitcoin there and ta-daa, magically, DCA makes sense again because, your wealth is safe. Also, go all-in is no-brain plan. I'm not going to say to my potential bitcoiners-wannabes to convert the entire amount at once rather than DCA-ing over an extended period, you make small steps, not the nuke option. As a matter of fact, even if I tell this to more experienced people (shitcoiners, maxis) who has more time in this field won't take this seriously.

reply

It depends on the period you start DCA. If you start in the bearish market then you are out for a win but it's not profitable in bullish times

I remember when I waited for bottom to enter and was upset if next day price was lower. After that I decided to enter DCA club and buy $13.37 daily. With DCA I don't care about price at all, I just now my wallet increases everyday

reply

I have found that DCA is the way for me to get step by step into BTC. Maybe is not the more profitable approach but for the people who gets a fiat income and bill's....is not "safe" to do an all in strategy.

I can not pay my mortgage with SATs and I can not pospone the payment until the numbers go up...

I do and recommend DCA. Sorry to disagree with your idea.

reply

I mentioned this before, DCA is the way to go for newbies, and that's what i recommend. For advanced Bitcoiners, it doesn't make sense do DCA in my opinion. But do your own research.

reply

deleted by author

deleted by author

deleted by author