Will the governments of the world come for us eventually or nah? Will talking feely about bitcoin become a security hazard or am I being too dramatic?



Even ignoring the government potential crack down / seizures it's just basic OPSEC. Many, many people have been physically assaulted to get to their bitcoins, so don't say anything that would give people the idea you're stacking heaps

General discussion and education of the topic is fine though 🙂

Many, many people have been physically assaulted

..really?? 😳

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @r0b 24 May

Some people have been physically assaulted

I'm more afraid of the governments, but I see your point. In any case, it could get scary if this bitcoin thing catches on.

Highly dependent on who you are, your threat model, and what you are doing online. Most of us are such small potatoes to the governments of the world that it isn't a big deal IMO. For most people privacy is far more important than anonymity. Privacy is choosing what you reveal. Edward Snowden has a very different threat model than myself.

I'm not saying who cares and it doesn't matter. I think it does but I think being completely anonymous for most people is probably overkill. We live in such a surveillance state that few of us could withstand the eye of Sauron. I do think privacy is more important for bitcoiners than no-coiners. At least for the most part. I'm very selective about what I share online but at the same time I'm not ashamed or afraid to stand up as a bitcoiner. I don't want my UTXOs to be public but I don't yet feel like I need a nym. Or maybe I already have several...

I respect folks that operate as nyms. If I were a bitcoin contributor I would do it as a nym. I guess my advice would be to do an analysis of your threat model and act accordingly.

I'm certainly not ashamed, and I'm not afraid at the moment. However, when bitcoin reaches a million dollars, to be conservative, I will be afraid, and all of our threat models will change drastically.

Your threat model may change, either because you become more famous / change what you do, or because your bag's purchasing power grows. Your online history, on the other hand, is indelible.

That is a very good point.

A very good point indeed.

Well said.

It's good to think ahead. Consider the following landscape 5 years from now:

  • Your stack is worth twenty times more now.

  • Most exchanges have been hacked, KYC info and purchase history are out in the wild.

  • AI has become exceptionally good at mimicing voices and video footage, as well as pushing out anti-Bitcoin propaganda.

  • Fiat systems are in complete meltdown. Escape routes are banned, users are imprisoned.

  • The general public is /incredibly/ salty and hostile that Bitcoin is successful while their own savings have withered away to nothing. Especially the elderly.

  • Attacks on Bitcoiners are much more commonplace. In many cases they will be celebrated.

Nobody knows how things will pan out, but at least some of this has to happen eventually. Do you want to remain public in such an environment? Because if you are public now, you are public forever; the internet never forgets.

Shit, here I was worrying about the government, and I completely forgot the rage of the elderly. New fear unlocked.

Those zimmer frames have sharp edges you know!

I thought I'd give the grannies a shout out because they are more active voters than the younger demographic. The US in particular seems to have a boomer tumour growing in their political apparatus, with both leading presidential candidates having been born in the 1940's.

Given the demographic situation across almost all countries - most of the people will be elderly. And this is not guessing: we know exactly how many twenty-year-olds are there going to be 20 years from now...

1 sats \ 1 replies \ @clr 24 May

Beware those walking sticks! 😂

Jokes aside, the rage will likely be channeled through the government.

It's coming, anyway. An example from Australia: https://nitter.at/jeffyew_/status/1660472345314885634

LOL, those Australian flyers are crazy-crazy. Wow.

Further reason bitcoiners need a citadel. If we do see a financial collapse those who are prepared financially will also need to be prepare tactically with food and physical security. Get out of the cities and learn to grow food. Build community with likeminded folk, don't have to be bitcoiners either. You can be their uncle Jim. This is my mindset.

Damn right, bitcoiners need several citadels all over the world. And we will probably need to vote with our feet and move to those citadels. Online pseudonymity is still a serious issue in this scenario, though.

Big important

“The fact that I sometimes speak about bitcoin online is no guarantee that I have any.”

Yes you do, I guarantee I just sent you 22 sats 😂

Also, I was involved in a notorious boating accident a while ago.

Excellent question. I think it's very important in order to increase one's optionality. Also important is three flag like thinking whereby you play jurisdictions off against each other with multiple residencies. I think owning Bitcoin will be a blessing and a curse if this thing gets as big as we think it might. A blessing in that one's purchasing power will grow. A curse in that one will have a target on one's back. "Be your own bank" they said. But did you give thought to what it takes to be a bank? Infosec, opsec, reactive security, proactive security. And given the immutable and public nature of the Bitcoin Blockchain, one's mistakes live forever and are carried forward into the future. So energy focussed now on infosec and opsec is energy well spent, imo. Then again I am a tinfoil hat wearing worrier so maybe I'm just seeing ghosts in the pocket. Hope to be proven wrong with a more utopian future but fear that I'll be right with something resembling 1984. As Odell says "it's a game of survival". Like most of what Odell says, it's not just a platitude. A lot of thought and presience is distilled into his slogans.

Yeah, Odell is a big influence on my opinion about these matters. Then again, I'm also a tinfoil hat wearing worrier, so I concede that we might be wrong about all of this. However, better safe than sorry is sound advice. Or at least as safe as we can.

Important to note the difference between anonymous and pseudonymous.

Anonymous is 4chan Pseudonymous would be this guy https://twitter.com/wallstreetsilv

Yeah, that's a key difference.

Pseudonyms allow you to be a known anonymous person. You can basically create a persona online and people will know that and know how to interact with you. At least a part of you, the one attached to that persona. IRL you as a person contain multiple personas that you choose to reveal to different people.

Being anonymous is useful for certain things, but of course it doesn't allow you to create any kind of persona, because by definition everything done anonymously is a one-off.

You're damn right! I should've said pseudonymous. Nullama's post defines the different positions very well. Thanks to both.

214 sats \ 1 replies \ @gnilma 24 May

The internet is very public, visible to the world. Regardless whether the government will come for us or not, it’s always good practice to stay anonymous and maintain privacy. By revealing your identity and also revealing that you hold bitcoin, it puts a target on you; be it possible government seizures or even just a $10 wrench attack (up from $5 due to inflation) from some online stalker. Especially if you believe bitcoin will eventually become the money of the world, the target on your back will only become larger if you lose your anonymity.

So stay vigilant and stay anonymous my fellow anon.

I certainly believe bitcoin will eventually become the money of the world, so anon it is.

Online is way too public.

Also, you don't behave in the same way with each person you know, so why doing it online?

Having a single username/real name in everything you do online is not wise.

At least some level of anonymity is key, otherwise you can't really say or do anything freely.

Hell yeah! I'm finding all of this pseudonymity very freeing, hahahahahHa.

27 sats \ 5 replies \ @k00b 24 May

It never hurts to be prepared. The higher your profile, the larger your stack or involvement the more it matters.

Yeah I'm with you on this, although I think pseudonymous is more practical than anonymous.

For bonus points, layer your nyms


That layered nyms approach is great, hahahahahaHa.


This is the kind of shit that happens if you're not careful online


Damn, what I could read was really scary. New fear unlocked.

The worst thing that could happen is that they don't come for us and we still get a cool online nickname, right?

Between where we are and where most of us think we're going, there is going to be a lot of economic upheaval. I think there's a very good chance Bitcoiners will be scapegoated and demonized as we go through it. In times like that, it's wise to either be too big to be taken down or not make yourself a target.

In general, I wish being anonymous online was easier. Anonymity and privacy is a spectrum. Trying to be perfect is difficult, but there are some easy measures and tools out there that greatly increases one's privacy.

A lot of our systems were built without privacy in mind, or at least prioritized, though. A user of popular Internet sites and apps is going to compromise a lot of their privacy. A user of a common cell phone with a common cell plan will also lose a lot of privacy.

It seems a lot of Bitcoin projects are conscious of privacy and anonymity more so than others. This is a good sign and I am bullish on privacy in the Bitcoin space overall.

It is one thing to fight for your online privacy. Don't forget your other security measures. Find a good community, arm yourself and your loved ones, be a hard target, be ungovernable.

I think governments tend to grow until they get chopped down in one way or another. Bitcoin and Bitcoiners are certainly a threat to state control. Privacy will be important in the future, no matter what happens.

Phenomenal post, my friend. I see that you deserve that cowboy hat.

as much as we can, matters not who you are but what you say (or do). There a lot of famous #^@%%##s and also few quiet/anonymous geniuses ... makes me think of one who's name start with S and ends in oto :-)

That's an extremely hard word puzzle! I will get back to you if I ever solve it, but I have little hope of that happening.

Being anonymous is not suitable for everyone. It takes a lot of effort to be completely anonymous and not everyone has the technical knowledge to do it. And taking care of privacy is very important and I think it's necessary for any user on the network, not just a bitcoiner. Always be aware of the amount of information you put online, what traces you leave behind. In 2023 with the ubiquitous big brother, privacy is a must.

Here, here, my friend. I don't even aspire to complete anonymity. I know at least Google knows who I am, and it always will. Unless...

I would argue that being anonymous online and having a presence is almost impossible nowadays, or at least extremely difficult and reserved for a few. Which makes Satoshi’s story even more marvellous and impressive actually.

But, having said that, we should still strive for anonymity as the ultimate protection of human free speech.

Satoshi was a real OG master jedi for that. I don't aspire to be as anonymous as him or her, but I'll do my best to promote bitcoin from the shadows.

Best not to tell anyone how much you have. Better also prepare to become a target when BTC becomes harder & harder to come by.

Être discret sur ce que vous possédez, c'est la clé pour être un bon bitcoiner. En restant anonyme, vous protégez votre identité, vos avoirs et c'est l'un des objectifs premiers des cryptomonnaies

You're damn right, my French friend.

Security wise both online and offline (physically).

You can clearly see the WEF roadmap they have in 2030: CBDC, Digital IDs and Smart Cities. It gets sooner when there will be a crackdown on encryption, governments will have sophisticated tools to track your crypto and they will track your life online and offline with Digital IDs.

Monero is under-appreciated between Bitcoiners but it is better you diversify to privacy coins, and be aware all your digital life can be used against you.

Hard pass on Monero and diversification.

Lol to each his own. Privacy proven.

  • Being online is important for human progress
  • Within "being online" the vast majority of importance is in reading, not writing
  • Anonymity within "reading, not writing" is basically zero - your ISP or VPN knows everything except if you use Tor or have a throwaway phone on public wifi
  • Anonymity within writing on the internet is very very important especially if you think about journalists or activists from oppressive regime countries
  • Anonymity within writing for people in free countries is important out of principle but it is also a given and I'm very sure most people here vastly overestimate how much it is at risk

All very important points. It's so hard to get a throwaway phone were I'm currently in... or is it?

Tor is easier: you just download the Tor browser and go

Throwaway phone is also pretty easy: just buy a used phone on craigslist, wipe it and only ever connect it to public wifi and do nothing important on it. Dealers and such do this more widespread to my knowledge. Might be overkill for just browsing the web anonymously or as "just in case" device

0 sats \ 1 replies \ @Rex 24 May

Is it important that you buy a cup of coffee to let people know? The point is not whether it is important or not, the point is that privacy is a basic human right. Privacy is not anonymity. The way to be anonymous in the cell phone age is to not use the cell phone. But using a phone can still maintain privacy, depending on how you do it.

I wish I could not use a cell phone and still function in this grey world. I'm doing my best to maintain certain privacy. Not total, but at least some kind of privacy.