Due to higher fees, it will push more people to lightning, more lightning usage and services allow more people to use Bitcoin, more people in Bitcoin get more people into Bitcoin pushing further and further adoption..
What do you think?
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463 sats \ 15 replies \ @iguano 8 May 2023
adoption of what?
a guy on Africa who pays 10$ for a transaction is not going to adopt bitcoin.
An idiot who buys a jpeg for 10$ yes.
the question is, what we want?
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205 sats \ 9 replies \ @nerd2ninja 8 May 2023
Adoption of the lightning network. I would like to take this time to remind everyone of all the mocking of the lightning network as having fees that are too high. No, rather on-chain to LN swap because on-chain is too cheap to bother with a proper lightning wallet.
On the other hand, fuck custodians. If using a custodian were an acceptable solution, we'd be using something inconvenient like gold or something. There are many improvements to the lightning network coming down the pipe that will make using a custodian sound silly.
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268 sats \ 0 replies \ @iguano 8 May 2023
everyone knows here that the LN is the solution.
And of course is better to use a custodial wallet for a beginner who manage small amounts that paying 10$ fee.
In fact I guess having high fees is good to try to kill this nonsense.
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54 sats \ 7 replies \ @jk_14 8 May 2023
let them start to use LN first, then we will educate them ("not your keys, not your Bitcoin")
not the opposite
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268 sats \ 0 replies \ @iguano 8 May 2023
they can use LN but they can have their keys too.
in any case, education is good no matter how you use bitcoin.
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119 sats \ 1 reply \ @franzap 8 May 2023
Non-custodial LN might not be enough, many people will be disincentivized to open their own channel with such high fees
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65 sats \ 0 replies \ @nerd2ninja 8 May 2023
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109 sats \ 3 replies \ @nerd2ninja 8 May 2023
For me, getting away from custodians is the selling point that gets people on Bitcoin in the first place so that flow makes no sense.
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10 sats \ 2 replies \ @jk_14 8 May 2023
how you imagine your success rate with newbies proposing them right now $10-20 fee for non-custodial LN wallet, when e.g. starting with WalletOfSatoshi is free of charge - and for them the functionally is simply the same
option 1:
"start with free of charge LN wallet, and migrate to non-custodial version when on-chain fees are back to acceptable"
option 2:
force them to $10-20 starting fee just to keep away from custodians (but don't cry there is no LN adoption)
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1 sat \ 1 reply \ @nerd2ninja 8 May 2023
option 3: I pay the $20 channel opening fee. The channel goes to my node. User doesn't gotta worry about a thing.
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21 sats \ 0 replies \ @iguano 8 May 2023
If I would start now taking payments, I think is better to start accepting LN in a custodial wallet and after I put together 200 or 300$, I would send that to my hodl wallet (non custodial on chain) or I would open my first channel on a easy wallet like phoenix or breez.
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108 sats \ 4 replies \ @jk_14 8 May 2023
"Most of newcomers will use: custodial LN wallets." (like it or not: #174247)
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/v1/57d675fc46c3c43b07adb974/1660940492292-LFWRMAENCKFU83ZV85KM/Told+You+So+200.jpg?format=1500w
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21 sats \ 3 replies \ @iguano 8 May 2023
most newcomers already use custodial wallets no matter which coin they use.
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54 sats \ 2 replies \ @jk_14 8 May 2023
so, the more important is that Lightning Network "gates" are broadly open
like Binance LN support hopefully, and the snowball effect may appear, regardless of on-chain fees
and newcomers will learn very quickly, when is the proper moment to move sats into on-chain wallet if necessary...
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217 sats \ 1 reply \ @iguano 8 May 2023
the snowball effect already started.
binance is adopting lightning because is being used. not the opposite.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @jk_14 8 May 2023
...because Binance is cancer for Bitcoin :)
Bitfinex LN support, for example: September 2020
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400 sats \ 0 replies \ @Majjin 8 May 2023
I don't think that will be the case. In fact, it may hurt adoption.
We want people to own their own keys. However a congested network makes transacting with your own keys more expensive. Opening a lightning channel or simply transacting for 80,000 to 100,000 sats is a steep price to pay. This will push people towards custodial solutions. The congestion hurts one of the main use cases of Bitcoin which is being your own bank.
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285 sats \ 1 reply \ @om 8 May 2023
Imagine a normie opening a newspaper and reading this:
The CEO of JP Morgan made the controversial decision to raise bank transfer fees to $20 due to SWIFT being clogged by Pepe-related traffic. He claimed that it would be good for JP Morgan in the end: "Due to higher fees, it will push more people to the new generation of financial companies such as Revolut, and the more people need to use Revolut, the more they need a bank to top up their Revolut account".
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379 sats \ 0 replies \ @jk_14 8 May 2023
but Revolut is not JP Morgan's child, like LN is Bitcoin's child ;)
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244 sats \ 0 replies \ @faithandcredit 8 May 2023
Fees like this are going invite the banks and paypal because suddenly credit card fees and all the downsides of the legacy system are suddenly competitive. Im fine with that. I am mostly interested in Bitcoin as a form of money. I can use it as money with paypal, fine by me. However the base layer needs to stay decentralized and censorship resistant imo. But thats just my opinion.
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226 sats \ 1 reply \ @phygit 8 May 2023
A bit naive. A clogged blockchain with ultra high fees is never a good sale pitch.
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71 sats \ 0 replies \ @03365d6a53 8 May 2023
it's naive to imagine the base chain as not being clogged with high fees
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162 sats \ 0 replies \ @SirGalahodl 8 May 2023
Yeah I can't send bitcoin to anybody right now. Like, at all. It just won't settle.
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54 sats \ 0 replies \ @KingZing 8 May 2023
All roads lead to the inevitable huh
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheBTCManual 9 May 2023
LN doesn't really solve it since you still need to get a first transaction in to access the network, its really just people purchasing already added liquidity or liquidity coming from bigger nodes.
Most people who know fees are high are either using custodial services or custodial wallets which isn't ideal, while clueless people are finding out fees are high the hard way
I do think that this high fees are impacting onramps like exchanges I see Binance, holdhodl and Bisq said they would be getting LN and more will follow I am sure of it. Liquidity will flow to where it bags a good premium and we hope that people will follow the incentives to provide cheaper onramps be that exchanges or P2P trades
For me its interesting to see how the market reacts, I can only speak for myself now when I buy P2P I purchase a stablecoin and swap it into LN or Liquid instead which isnt what I used to do before, but its way cheaper compared to going on-chain
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10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Ge 9 May 2023
I think your right will push lightning to further develop because will be more of a need
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