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I had most of this material gathering digital dust already, but Mr. Marche today brought it out in force... (#1467016) In the AI column he published for The Guardian over the long weekend, he had this to say about chess:

Chess is a good model for anyone trying to figure out how to use artificial intelligence. AI transformed chess well before it changed any other field. It has completely altered the nature of the game, the nature of training and analysis, the entire conditions under which the game is played. Every grandmaster alive today has trained with AI.
But Gukesh Dommaraju, the current world champion, took an unusual path: his coach, the grandmaster Vishnu Prasanna, encouraged him to avoid AI until he was fully formed as a player. He sharpened his skills, he grew his creativity, he steered his talent away from bad habits, and then, and only then, did he turn to the engines. It worked.
The key is to control the machine, rather than having the machine controlling you.

Chess is an interesting precursor to the infinite-generation/stronger-calculation impact AI might have... because top chess engines have been better than top humans for 25 years already. (Ironically, the LLMs everyone's familiar with are pretty shit at playing chess... they just keep inventing illegal moves, misremembering where the pieces are etc.; you gotta use specialized chess-software to get this god-like understanding of the game.)

Marche is right that machines have completely revamped the chess world: the way the elites play, how they think, how they train, how they analyze, how us schmucks consume the big events (we have an evaluation bar next to the game, capable therefore of instantly understanding the state of the game... though lots of complexity, human vs machine moves etc)— the machine is everywhere.

Now, how do chess players keep their value in this world of infinite strength and infinitely stronger chess players? BY RELEGATING THE MACHINES.

You can practice with machines, analyze games after (or for us audience, during) the games, but the players themselves may not use the machine (other than memorizing opening lines produced and devised beforehand). That is:

To keep the human value intact, we carved out a machine-free zoneTo keep the human value intact, we carved out a machine-free zone

That is, bragging that something is not AI-generated still has some staying power.

Writing _without it_ is the thing that indicates (potential?) worth.


Art, what's this got to do with art?Art, what's this got to do with art?

Art is our human ability to imagine anything, literally anything. Real or not, plausible or not, art in whatever form provides us -- collectively speaking -- with the same view into infinity that LLMs do. Or chess lines.

Here's a weird one: there are more unique possible chess games (or moves, I forget) than the number of atoms in the observable universe. After move 3 in chess, there are hundreds of millions of possible combinations.
(For the math nerds/autists here: 16 pawn moves and 4 knight moves... and then the opponent has the same, so after the first round there are 20*20=400 different positions; 200k after move 2; ...after 15, per Shannon's number: 2,015,099,950,053,364,471,960 — whatever the fuck this number is. #990846)

Here's the relevant art/LLM takeaway from that infinite search space: the vast, vast, vast majority of those move combinations are nonsense. Hanging your queen, moving an unimportant pawn etc. Only a few candidate moves in every position are ever worth our attention. The skill in chess involves selecting(!) which ones, to calculate/evaluate that the following position is beneficial to you, what potential resources your opponent has to counter you.

That's why I struggle with reading (fantasy) novels, a hatred that goes back to magical realism back in literature class. (and why I suspect I keep being a bitch to plebpoet #1463569) Why bother? They're just one line of infinite upon infinite possible ones. There are no rules and no limitations. I'm already suspending disbelief to consume your thing... and now you're bringing infinite-possibilities, whatever-goes back into it...?
Like, stfu and leave me alone.

No sane person likes art, or poetry, or chess, or movies in abstract. Because the quantity available to us since, I dunno, the 14th century, far exceeds anything you could ever consume. And with infinite generation, most "art" or "poetry" or "chess moves" or "movies" are complete crap.

Stream-of-consciousnessStream-of-consciousness

Here's another retarded phenomenon in literary history.... And I confess, this rant originally burst out from my fingers reading Michael Pollan's literature chapter in A World Appears... (#1464029). He interviews a lady who, completely seriously, thought up something as insane as a one-sentence, thousand-page(!) stream-of-consciousness novel. Like why... just don't.

"Ellmann's protagonist is a good person and a good liberal who worries about fun violence and human rights and the cruelties or the American medical system, but not enough to actually do anything about any of it." (p. 172)

Exploring why stream-of-consciousness disappeared, he found a PhD dissertation on the subject:

I guess I'm just too Victorian? (Purity and all that.)

No, I don't think the insane rambling of a mad(wo)man worth our attention.No, I don't think the insane rambling of a mad(wo)man worth our attention.

To paraphrase game of thrones, a madman sees what he sees... the rest of us don't have to look or entertain his delusions. Extend to the vast, vast majority of fictional characters ever created; the vast, vast majority of art ever made; the vast, vast majority of chess moves ever played; the vast, vast number of LLM prompts.

Or, in a context Bitcoiners understand, shitcoins. You don't investigate 9,999 cryptos... you quickly learn that there's 1 worth your attention and interest, and the rest some combination of unworkable, inferior, and scammy. And you politely (or not so politely) proceed to tell anyone off who approaches you with a kRyPTo to, uhm, fuck. right. off.

Liking chess means to play it (against someone else), to try it out for yourself and see who conquers. There’s no illusion that it has value to anybody else, to respect it simply because I played it (well, ok, MAYBE: #969720)

Liking chess might also mean observing, as I do religiously, the elites playing high-stakes and high-level games against each other. That’s the other part of the literature analogy: there are some elites in literature. There are novels and works worth your attention. While I can make some nice brilliant moves now and again, and I’m sure you or your artsy cousin or the new thriller writer from Indiana can write some half-decent stuff, if you’re consuming someone else’s creation (and your time and resources are limited, and the potential reads you _could_ be reading almost infinite) you ought to be consuming theirs (=the high-level, elite, tested-and-proven ones) — not mine, or that Indiana newbie. And definitely not a stream-of-consciousness lady off her meds.

Of course, this overwhelming irrelevancy doesn't reflect back on the game of chess itself or the genre of literature — but it does indicate to us that whenever somebody says they like “art” or “music” or “chess” they’re either retarded, or mean something specifically (and unsaid!): that is, I like the good quality, the good moves in chess, the music that makes me (or you, or him) feel something; the specific, vanishingly rare art that does that too.

Most art is shit. Most chess moves are shit. Most LLM slop is, well, slop.

That’s the unavoidable nature of infinite generation.


To finish this on a lighter note, a Ricky Gervais interview comes to mind, him trying to show how similar — actually — atheism and e.g., Christianity is:

"There are thousands of gods out there… you deny one less god than I do... you don’t believe in 2,999 gods, and I don’t believe in just one more!""There are thousands of gods out there… you deny one less god than I do... you don’t believe in 2,999 gods, and I don’t believe in just one more!"

What’s the big deal, you’d say.

Is it a coincidence that a dig on religion comes to me when thinking about the meaning of infinity?

I. Think. Not.

71 sats \ 1 reply \ @geeknik 14 Apr

AI doesn’t kill value, it makes taste, selection, and human-constrained arenas more valuable. Everything else becomes slop, spectatorship, or marketing.

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that's the same thing...

To understand that: if AI wasn't here, what would bring the value/content?

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you really buried my mention in here hehe

I do agree with your point, I think. I'll state it my way and we'll compare notes.
Taste serves art more than possibility/imagination

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Do you ever wonder at what point all the actually elite games in chess will have been played? Or, is the space big enough that even excluding all the shitty moves, there are still immortal games lurking out there?

I'm not much of a chess player, so I wouldn't know. But I do know that this hope, this electricity of excitement I remember from the first time I read The Rifles or East of Eden or watched One Cut of the Dead or The Matrix or the first time I encountered any great story for the first time -- that I'm still jonesing after it. I am willing to risk reading some shitty writing or hanging out with mediocrity occasionally in order to find something new. It's not enough that there are great stories. I want new great stories.

I wonder if llms will deliver this as I'm sure they have delivered new great games in chess. If llms become capable of producing elite stories, will we still enjoy them? Or will we refuse to listen, no matter how awesome they are, because if we turn our ear that way it all becomes insipid?

I agree that the elites of any craft are worth our time. But at least in the realm of stories, I am quite confident that we haven't seen all the good games yet. So that keeps me mucking about in the sty and even occasionally peeking at the slop and happy to be there.

Also: I really dig it when you write like this. There's a little electric buzz.

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It's like asking when all the Bitcoin seed phrases will be generated and we'll start to see wallet collisions is my understanding. I.e. never. It's just really hard for the brain to understand what big numbers can be generated from such a small data set, once extrapolating out exponentials.

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Well, but with seed phrases they are all presumably just as good as the other. In chess, I assume the vast majority of possible moves are not relevant.

The question is: how limited are the forms of games that are exciting and interesting to watch? I assume that many games at tournaments are actual small variations on quite similar games. They aren't really that new...even if the exact sequence of moves has never been done before.

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sort of right... But interestingly, almost every tournament players bring some novelty twist on move 15 in the Spanish opening or whatever.

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I imagine there are still, and will always be, immortal games to find. But you're probably right in that the low hanging fruit is likely all gone. So it may be that such a game is played once every million games(?) rather than in the old days where every 1000(?) may have produced a classic? That's my hypothesis, anyway. Zero data to back it up.

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Slightly less... Chess moved can be stupid, where's any seed phrase is as good as another

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I like chess because it takes up all my brain cycles in a way similar to PoW mining taking up excess power on the grid. Chess helps me to stop thinking (about anything else other than chess). Chess is, in and of itself, for me at least, a complete waste of time. And that's why I like it. It's pure play. And I like to play. I'm too old to play soccer now, so chess is a good substitute. When I'm playing i'm totally absorbed, and I don't need to worry about quantum computers or the Straight of Hormuz. So, for me, chess is the opposite of "intellectual". I may as well be playing Candy Crush. Chess is a very good PoW algorithm, though, imo. It is impossible to exhaust one's knowledge of it, or even get close to understanding 0.1% of it. But for some reason, one is compelled to try..

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Now, how do chess players keep their value in this world of infinite strength and infinitely stronger chess players?

Hahahaha

Look at Hikaru, Gotham Chess, Hans Niemann, and the Botez Sisters to find out how chess players keep their value!

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Oh. Typo... I obviously meant "engines" there at the end.

And yes, precisely. There's some econ to be had here. In competition with infinite supply, you either artificially restrict output (=monopoly) or you make the big bucks in adjacent/complementary domains

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I always wondered if chess getting younger, more "fun", more meme-worthy, more e-sports-like, was due to computers being better than humans. The mystique and the prestige of it is a little less than it used to be, and the market responds accordingly.

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Agreed. Stockfish is a great leveler. Sure, it take intelligence to use an engine properly to analyze games. A lot of the engine recommended moves are going to be unrealistic for a human to find or else not level appropriate for the average pleb. But once you learn how to use your own brain in conjunction with the engine now you basically have a super super GM in your corner to analyze your games with and point out ideas you missed and how you can improve. 24/7 free of charge never gets tired or bored. It makes you marvel at what Bobby Fischer achieved pre engine, all by himself, with none of the state sponsored support structure the soviets enjoyed. Bobby did it all with brain, grit, books, and a portable foldable chess set.

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The key is to control the machine, rather than having the machine controlling you.

This statement will be applicable to so much of life in the coming months/years/decades

* Slopcoding - blindly following prompts

* Self driving vehicles - Listening to your Zoomer dad in 50 years talking about gear changes and parallel parking

* Going to the AI doctor and having it prescribe you some magic pills and a treatment plan

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Funny, I got some magic pills just today! Head feels light and dizzy and semi-drunk... Some guuud shit

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I created a quiz on the bright future of chess in an AI world courtesy of Bitcoin, at my edutech site bitcoinhighschool.com

My thesis is that chess can be more beautiful if chess players have the option to not only push the limits from a position of scarcity ('I want to win prize money!') but also from a position of abundance ('I can explore great chess moves if I ride AI like a person riding a rocket ship').

Wonder what you think of this.
Do check out the quiz under Bitcoinized Games.
Name: Bite 26 -- Bitcoin beautifies Chess.