Can someone explain what happened that made me lose 300k Sats running my node? \ stacker news ~bitcoin

So - I am setting up a new lightning node on an Umbrel. Everything was going smooth and I opened a channel with stacker news with 500k sats.

Next - to be able to receive sats (inbound liquidity) - I did a loop out with 300k sats. It was stuck on initiated for a while then just completely disappeared - not in history, not anywhere on the GUI, but the sats was gone. An hour after, I paid a 30k sats invoice as prepay that showed up on the GUI.

I debugged it with lncli listpayments --include_incomplete and it shows up as "IN-FLIGHT" - decoded the payment request and it has an expiration of 1 year. (see JSON below). So, I am guessing it's either completely gone or will come back to me in a year.

I would like to know what did I do wrong though, so it won't happen again. It's $70, so not the end of the world. But, I was planning to fund my node with serious money - is this kind of thing common?

What is a pleb to do to be able to receive 100k-500k sats for occasional robosats orders?

Thanks for your help!

JSON { "payment_hash": "21b446474587b901726231b9f45a88028f8081a731669a21e61425e3ca56c2c6", "value": "271226", "creation_date": "1675454297", "fee": "0", "payment_preimage": "0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000", "value_sat": "271226", "value_msat": "271226000", "payment_request": "lnbc2712260n1p3a6e65pp5yx6yv369s7uszunzxxulgk5gq28cpqd8x9nf5g0xzsj78jjkctrqdy9wdmkzupq95s8xcmjd9c8gw3qxqcryvphx5enver9x3jngdpkxvunqenxvfjnjefs8yensdfnvcuryvtrxuuxxctpvs6rvvpexumx2wtyvyex2cfnvyunjwpnv9jrvc3nxsenscqzxgxq97zvuqrzjqgwf02g2gy0l9vgdc25wxt0z72wjlfyagxlmk54ag9hyvrdsw37s6zu9ggqq0sgqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqqq9qsp5x8h5mxqwq3pjw5uvhc8tcukr0lautkxk23guh9z2vn58nxxshjks9qyyssq47hctg8xt7u22x387raahd3qrr62nzml3395x4mz8g4tgd8spc9s6gm5x6hwwdge5qud37slf6qjkhcsrnhxlm03ctuapxtvksr8dnsqt6dj8c", "status": "IN_FLIGHT", "fee_sat": "0", "fee_msat": "0", "creation_time_ns": "1675454297990975220", "htlcs": [ { "attempt_id": "3", "status": "FAILED", "route": { "total_time_lock": 775331, "total_fees": "408", "total_amt": "271634", "hops": [ { "chan_id": "852010460957179905", "chan_capacity": "500000", "amt_to_forward": "271633", "fee": "1", "expiry": 775291, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271633567", "fee_msat": "1271", "pub_key": "03cc1d0932bb99b0697f5b5e5961b83ab7fd66f1efc4c9f5c7bad66c1bcbe78f02", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": null, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } }, { "chan_id": "756703693498155009", "chan_capacity": "2500000", "amt_to_forward": "271226", "fee": "407", "expiry": 775147, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271226000", "fee_msat": "407567", "pub_key": "03864ef025fde8fb587d989186ce6a4a186895ee44a926bfc370e2c366597a3f8f", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": null, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } }, { "chan_id": "851886216107065345", "chan_capacity": "300000000", "amt_to_forward": "271226", "fee": "0", "expiry": 775107, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271226000", "fee_msat": "0", "pub_key": "021c97a90a411ff2b10dc2a8e32de2f29d2fa49d41bfbb52bd416e460db0747d0d", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": null, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } }, { "chan_id": "830142274217246720", "chan_capacity": "271226", "amt_to_forward": "271226", "fee": "0", "expiry": 775107, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271226000", "fee_msat": "0", "pub_key": "03fb2a0ca79c005f493f1faa83071d3a937cf220d4051dc48b8fe3a087879cf14a", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": { "payment_addr": "31ef4d980e044327538cbe0ebc72c37ffbc5d8d65451cb944a64e87998d0bcad", "total_amt_msat": "271226000" }, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } } ], "total_fees_msat": "408838", "total_amt_msat": "271634838" }, "attempt_time_ns": "1675454299210336062", "resolve_time_ns": "1675454301616822359", "failure": { "code": "TEMPORARY_CHANNEL_FAILURE", "channel_update": { "signature": "24a98e2314424335ba505b78e44f0fa5c65cc41a15b6c9c33a6d0d2ca00b760154414898e8ac8f601e5c14dfac22d7db08c641b61400110e46157b68045c8cc9", "chain_hash": "6fe28c0ab6f1b372c1a6a246ae63f74f931e8365e15a089c68d6190000000000", "chan_id": "756703693498155009", "timestamp": 1675433719, "message_flags": 1, "channel_flags": 1, "time_lock_delta": 40, "htlc_minimum_msat": "1000", "base_fee": 1000, "fee_rate": 1, "htlc_maximum_msat": "2500000000", "extra_opaque_data": null }, "htlc_msat": "0", "onion_sha_256": null, "cltv_expiry": 0, "flags": 0, "failure_source_index": 1, "height": 0 }, "preimage": null }, { "attempt_id": "5", "status": "FAILED", "route": { "total_time_lock": 775267, "total_fees": "215", "total_amt": "271441", "hops": [ { "chan_id": "852010460957179905", "chan_capacity": "500000", "amt_to_forward": "271440", "fee": "1", "expiry": 775227, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271440286", "fee_msat": "1271", "pub_key": "03cc1d0932bb99b0697f5b5e5961b83ab7fd66f1efc4c9f5c7bad66c1bcbe78f02", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": null, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } }, { "chan_id": "802760036711137281", "chan_capacity": "2100000", "amt_to_forward": "271413", "fee": "27", "expiry": 775187, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271413145", "fee_msat": "27141", "pub_key": "035e4ff418fc8b5554c5d9eea66396c227bd429a3251c8cbc711002ba215bfc226", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": null, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } }, { "chan_id": "847269366806740993", "chan_capacity": "100000000", "amt_to_forward": "271226", "fee": "187", "expiry": 775147, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271226000", "fee_msat": "187145", "pub_key": "039ffeb9af0c7ffcb0b0a1b9f099a38c4d922248595936a0cbd1c77d901df6d8d6", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": null, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } }, { "chan_id": "850833983528042497", "chan_capacity": "517000000", "amt_to_forward": "271226", "fee": "0", "expiry": 775107, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271226000", "fee_msat": "0", "pub_key": "021c97a90a411ff2b10dc2a8e32de2f29d2fa49d41bfbb52bd416e460db0747d0d", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": null, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } }, { "chan_id": "830142274217246720", "chan_capacity": "271226", "amt_to_forward": "271226", "fee": "0", "expiry": 775107, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271226000", "fee_msat": "0", "pub_key": "03fb2a0ca79c005f493f1faa83071d3a937cf220d4051dc48b8fe3a087879cf14a", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": { "payment_addr": "31ef4d980e044327538cbe0ebc72c37ffbc5d8d65451cb944a64e87998d0bcad", "total_amt_msat": "271226000" }, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } } ], "total_fees_msat": "215557", "total_amt_msat": "271441557" }, "attempt_time_ns": "1675454302583423850", "resolve_time_ns": "1675454305180097200", "failure": { "code": "TEMPORARY_CHANNEL_FAILURE", "channel_update": { "signature": "479596e836c4dc01e46b87f91550a741bd04cfe0a0eaa478c18a377fc6e49ed263647271194d7690ad8ce2595dd11260bef03aa966a7383a72fb893ada01ed4f", "chain_hash": "6fe28c0ab6f1b372c1a6a246ae63f74f931e8365e15a089c68d6190000000000", "chan_id": "802760036711137281", "timestamp": 1675421119, "message_flags": 1, "channel_flags": 1, "time_lock_delta": 40, "htlc_minimum_msat": "1000", "base_fee": 1000, "fee_rate": 1, "htlc_maximum_msat": "2079000000", "extra_opaque_data": null }, "htlc_msat": "0", "onion_sha_256": null, "cltv_expiry": 0, "flags": 0, "failure_source_index": 1, "height": 0 }, "preimage": null }, { "attempt_id": "7", "status": "IN_FLIGHT", "route": { "total_time_lock": 775227, "total_fees": "570", "total_amt": "271796", "hops": [ { "chan_id": "852010460957179905", "chan_capacity": "500000", "amt_to_forward": "271795", "fee": "1", "expiry": 775187, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271795032", "fee_msat": "1271", "pub_key": "03cc1d0932bb99b0697f5b5e5961b83ab7fd66f1efc4c9f5c7bad66c1bcbe78f02", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": null, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } }, { "chan_id": "837745397074558976", "chan_capacity": "5000000", "amt_to_forward": "271226", "fee": "569", "expiry": 775147, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271226000", "fee_msat": "569032", "pub_key": "02e4971e61a3f55718ae31e2eed19aaf2e32caf3eb5ef5ff03e01aa3ada8907e78", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": null, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } }, { "chan_id": "845733349024137218", "chan_capacity": "100000000", "amt_to_forward": "271226", "fee": "0", "expiry": 775107, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271226000", "fee_msat": "0", "pub_key": "021c97a90a411ff2b10dc2a8e32de2f29d2fa49d41bfbb52bd416e460db0747d0d", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": null, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } }, { "chan_id": "830142274217246720", "chan_capacity": "271226", "amt_to_forward": "271226", "fee": "0", "expiry": 775107, "amt_to_forward_msat": "271226000", "fee_msat": "0", "pub_key": "03fb2a0ca79c005f493f1faa83071d3a937cf220d4051dc48b8fe3a087879cf14a", "tlv_payload": true, "mpp_record": { "payment_addr": "31ef4d980e044327538cbe0ebc72c37ffbc5d8d65451cb944a64e87998d0bcad", "total_amt_msat": "271226000" }, "amp_record": null, "custom_records": { } } ], "total_fees_msat": "570303", "total_amt_msat": "271796303" }, "attempt_time_ns": "1675454306802768659", "resolve_time_ns": "0", "failure": null, "preimage": null } ], "payment_index": "3", "failure_reason": "FAILURE_REASON_NONE" },

2493 sats \ 1 reply \ @TonyGiorgio 4 Feb 2023

So this is a result of a payment either getting stuck or currently in flight.

{
"attempt_id": "7",
"status": "IN_FLIGHT",
"route": {
"total_time_lock": 775227,
"total_fees": "570",
"total_amt": "271796",
"hops": [
{
"chan_id": "852010460957179905",
"chan_capacity": "500000",
"amt_to_forward": "271795",
"fee": "1",
"expiry": 775187,
"amt_to_forward_msat": "271795032",
"fee_msat": "1271",
"pub_key": "03cc1d0932bb99b0697f5b5e5961b83ab7fd66f1efc4c9f5c7bad66c1bcbe78f02",
"tlv_payload": true,
"mpp_record": null,
"amp_record": null,
"custom_records": {
}
},

The important number here is "expiry": 775187, which is the max block it'll be stuck for, which is about 200 blocks from now or around ~30 or so hours from now.

Best case scenario, it gets unstuck before then. It is typical that the payment is in flight for the duration of the loop out period, which takes 2 on chain transactions. Make sure you don't turn off your node for this portion. If all went well, eventually you'll have that in flight payment show as successful and you will have some on chain funds.

Worst case, the payment is acttually stuck and it'll result in a unilateral (force) close where you will be able to get the funds back, but on chain as a result of closing the channel. After the channel closes, it'll take a bit more time after that to actually spend the funds, since your channel partner will have a chance to reveal the preimage still.

Payments getting stuck is no fun, and unilateral closures aren't either, but that's part of the protocol when a spontanous failure occurs down the line. As long as you don't turn off your node, you should have your funds back, either on chain or back in the channel. It's just that at most it could take 7 - 10 days, but hopefully less than 2.

Edit:

You probably didn't do anything wrong here and it was a result of a payment failure down the line. Though you could ask @k00b if it shows that he has the same payment stuck but on the other side. If so, then yeah it wasn't your fault. But there's a chance there's a communication problem between you and k00b in which case it could be your fault (or tor's fault).

10 sats \ 0 replies \ @Jonathan_Adly OP 4 Feb 2023

Thank you for your reply! Guess will wait 7-10 days and see what happens!

20 sats \ 0 replies \ @l0k18 4 Feb 2023

It sounds like a stuck payment to me. This happens sometimes.

It's more likely to happen with bigger payments. Using AMP can help avoid this.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Eximpius 4 Feb 2023

If you want liquidity in the future to receive funds. Use something like Amboss Magma or another inbound service. Its cheap and you dont even need btc in the on-chain wallet.