Is hating on non-custodial wallets a form of virtue signalling?
317 sats \ 11 comments \ @claytantor 31 Jan 2023 bitcoin
Self-sovereignty is awesome and we support it completely, but not everyone can jump through all the backflips or even have the technical intelligence to start with bitcoin custody. It takes time for them to understand how it will help them. If bitcoin beach had been required to be self sovereign there would be no bitcoin beach.
Many developers use the rapaygo.com cloud APIs as a stepping stone to sovereignty, to learn how to accept LN payments, or use our platform to get started, test the reception of what they are doing in developing Lightning Network payments applications, and then invest in setting up their own LND server.
A vast majority of LN users use non custodial wallets like Wallet of Satoshi or Lightning Tip Bot for convenience or because they don't understand the fundamentals yet. The thing is I totally support teaching people how to run their own infrastructure too!
I personally feel like the purity of some people in our community is a form of virtual signaling. I commonly hear "you are doing it wrong" or "why not teach people to do it the right way", or "the point of bitcoin is". As if Bitcoin was simple enough to put into boxes like this.
What are your thoughts?
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15 sats \ 6 replies \ @nerd2ninja 31 Jan 2023
I think teaching people the LSP model first is easy to start and has learning opportunities built within itself vs custodial which sort of trains people to use Bitcoin in a more vulnerable than necessary way.
I do not believe that custodial solutions are easier. Period dot. First point of contention if you need something to focus on.
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0 sats \ 5 replies \ @claytantor OP 31 Jan 2023
Trying to understand. Do you mean that you feel like running a Lightning Node and setting up a Lightning wallet to use it is as easy as using Wallet Of Satoshi in a non-custodial (where they manage the node) pattern?
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45 sats \ 4 replies \ @nerd2ninja 31 Jan 2023
No. LSP. Lightning service provider. Phoenix wallet and breeze for example. There's trust involved but its not rehypothecation risk and its much more self sovereign than wallet of satoshi.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @claytantor OP 31 Jan 2023
Gotcha. I see what you are saying. IMHO Still a lot to ask of Dick over at Dicks Primal Burger for his 30 burgers a week, better from a custody point of view yes. My main point is if I drew a "hard line" that LSP was "doing it wrong" it would cut out a big group who are just trying to figure this stuff out without a gigantic time and knowledge investment. When we draw hard lines we reduce Bitcoin's reach, and to be honest I feel like some people who say things like that are virtual signaling how pure a Bitcoiner they are.
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0 sats \ 2 replies \ @nerd2ninja 31 Jan 2023
Its not though. Its really not. Look Dick needs card and bitcoin point of sale built into the same system and the only options he has for that is clover, strike, chivo. Otherwise he'd have to use square and open node, but the larger point is that its possible and easy, just needs built but stobbern middle men who think only custodial can be easy will never provide it for them.
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15 sats \ 1 reply \ @rapaygo 31 Jan 2023
Nope, he is just using rapaygo and printed LNURL QR cards on his laser printer. It took him 30m to set it up using our website, and people were buying burgers with bitcoin day of. He doesnt try to tie it into clover, and we got him a ledger for his windows desktop and he drained his raypago balance to it at the end of the day.
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80 sats \ 0 replies \ @nerd2ninja 31 Jan 2023
Yo rapaygo! Been a while since I seen you on the site lol
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3 sats \ 0 replies \ @TheL0wner 31 Jan 2023
I certainly advise self custody for on-chain sats and I mean it. Lightning is a different beast.
I will most likely never run a lightning node of my own. I see no realistic future scenario requiring or even making it significantly advantageous for me to do so in my lifetime.
Perhaps this is short-sighted and I will be happy to be proven wrong someday, but by then it should all be much simpler anyway.
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @southside263 1 Feb 2023
💯yes 😂
Wallet of Satoshi UX >
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0 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 31 Jan 2023
Some people don't really know how to take advantages of custodial solutions. If you use a custodial account that doesn't require full KYC, it is ok to use it and could be a very good "decoy" when is about to receive BTC, especially over LN.
I wrote several guides about this aspect.
Custodial is not as bad if you know how to use it and how to split your stash in 3 levels:
  • HODL - most of your stash
  • Cache - just a medium amount
  • Spending (where custodial could be useful)
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @claytantor OP 31 Jan 2023
This is all amazing stuff, the issue is that Dick over at Dick's Primal Burger wants to accept bitcoin for burgers from the 30 people who come there every week for a meetup. He just isn't able to understand what you just explained, and doesn't think it's worth it for just these people. He is curious but not committed. He wants a simple fast and cheap way to get started because that's common for small business owners.
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