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50 sats \ 34 replies \ @jasonb 7h \ on: Lots Of Riders Without Their Weapons meta
Isn’t @DarthCoin actively encouraging this? It’s obviously not my style, but how is it gaming the system? Seems like a legit approach to me, although I may just be missing something.
What Darth is doing is not connecting wallets. That's very different. By connecting a receive wallet and no send wallet, you can get real sats from fellow stackers, but you only zap cowboy credits.
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But such stackers do still need to acquire CCs. So either they are receiving them or buying them.
If they have a wallet attached for receiving, they ought to mostly be receiving sats.
So then they are just buying CCs by sending sats to SN. Is it really easier to pay a LN invoice every so often than it is to copy paste a NWC string?
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Is it really easier to pay a LN invoice every so often than it is to copy paste a NWC string?
Yes, because:
- it's not just pasting a NWC string, you need to maintain that wallet and deal with any issues, including your wallet provider getting hacked
- I only have to pay a lightning invoice when I decide to. I bought 10k credits weeks ago.
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That makes sense. But presumably you also have to maintain the wallet from which you pay the invoice. All of #1 applies to the wallet from which you pay the invoice to buy CCs.
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No. I only need to maintain send and receive functionality. I don't need to deal with any other protocol that actually connects my wallet to an app.
Phoenix is great, and I have been using it for many years without any issues. Can't say that about NWC, etc.
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NWC, when it finally worked for me, with cashu worked okay-ish, except I continuously needed to have my phone open for every zap I did on my laptop. That's a serious disruption of UX. I agree with you that the CC flow is the least disruptive, because it allows to prepay. But I know that people want sats, so if there is something good, even if I need to have my phone open all the time, I will try to be nice and do it, as long as the software is stable and non-custodial.
I could put some minor amount of sats in a custodial wallet, but all of them, as you noted above, are crap, get hacked, go down, rug... all of the shit that is no bueno. That's not what Bitcoin has ever been about for me, so why would I encourage the existence of services like that? I stopped using cashu because I have some unclaimable sats, as that is really not acceptable. No matter the amount; if it happens on a small amount, it will happen on big amounts too. So cashu/npubcash is too custodial as well, at least for me.
There must be better UX for this and I think that with SN there's a good reason to find it. NWC hasn't been it in any current implementation, but maybe we can formulate what's needed?
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This is a pretty good description of the current situation.
The custodial options work the best...until they suddenly don't. And they raise the question of what we are doing bothering with bitcoin in the first place.
the ecash apps all seem to have this problem of needing to be open (minibits and cashu, even the newish Fedimint app has the same issue) -- are web wallets the future?
There must be better UX for this and I think that with SN there's a good reason to find it.
I've been playing around with Lexe wallet. They have their own SDK thing (not NWC), but I imagine they wouldn't suffer the same need the app open problem.
Another cool world might be create an SN account and get a phoenixd running on a server somewhere -- but that probably means paying for and maintaining a lot more infrastructure (my technical ignorance will reveal itself perhaps in this suggestion).
There's also Spark, but as Justin points out, it's not exactly free of custodial troubles...especially when using it to interact with lightning native stuff.
I need to try Shock Wallet again now that CLINK is an option.
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are web wallets the future?
They feel like poverty due to insane ecosystem milking by <App/Goog>le1. PWA integration feels shitty on both platforms because thats what they want it to be: as shitty as possible so that you pay your 30% app store tax - the Goog variant does a little better than the App one and there was talk of the latter wanting to remove support all together2. It's insane anyway because these smart phones don't come cheap.
get a phoenixd running on a server somewhere
Or
lnd or cln. That's honestly what I should personally do as I already have servers, but then I cannot help anyone with just connecting a wallet. I won't know what works then, and I'd like to be in the know and I like testing wallets, but not custodial ones. I'm still thinking that if Blixt/Zeus would have great CLINK/NWC connectivity, then we can probably focus on reducing the energy and data consumption of their embedded LNDs.There's also Spark
Friends don't recommend friends this, I think? lol. Also afaik the LN interface is as custodial as npubcash, i.e. you have no cryptographic / on-chain recourse when the LN channel fucks up?
Footnotes
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Those earthquakes lately was Steve, the visionary inventor of PWA, rolling over in his grave at high RPM. ↩
I could explain you how some here are getting sats, but don't want to reveal the shit in public.
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It's a flaw in SN rewards system.
That's why for long time I was proposing to remove totally the SN rewards.
SN must be mainly "pay to post".
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I have no way of knowing whether you deliberately ignored something I wrote1 on some Issue, or was it a Discussion?, whatever, microsoft website pageblob ... point is, there are several plausible reasons for people to care some bounded positive real2 amount about comments, even if the time spent agonizing over whether to zap from the same pseudorandom haze is worth more than that ignoring the refreshingly obvious advertisements3 all over the place.
The quote block is from some half-dead discussion, started by "ghost", about the possibility of automating zaps. I've not been around this website long enough to read all the top stackers' complaints, although I wouldn't be surprised if some people don't mind the implicit competition and channel backups, yet do consider zapping an obnoxious chore.
there are several different situations where you feel gratitude for the site providing you some item, rather than annoyance at the delay of interesting content:
- someone answered your question; these aren't necessarily
A:"..."/B:"...?"/A"!"reply chains, orA:"@B"/B:"..."chains, because you might have asked a general question and someone provided the answer unsolicited- someone already posted a reply saying pretty much what you would have, saving you the trouble of producing the wording, let alone the cost of posting it
- media that wasn't necessarily informative or interesting, although entertained you
- some comment wasn't any of the above and yet restored your faith in humanity [e.g. someone setting a good example by remaining courteous in a situation where nobody else was being polite]
obviously there are also random zaps, and sometimes conversations aren't utilitarian enough for my sterilised github imagination to figure out why they not only happened but kept people in SN rather than some unmonetized or even antimonetary site.my purpose in enumerating the above scenarios is to help spec out the different behaviors that might be reasonable for an autozap; e.g., a sanely minimal autozap would credit a media uploader the cost of your commenting "LOL"the sort of crazy idea I often have is that a zap amount could be computed from things like the mixing entropy of the comment chain, or maybe the differential increase in the mixing entropy that was added by your comment.
To any and all readers, and not only my dear Darth of Finite Patience, Boundless Wisdom, and Indubtbubble Wildernesse:
Please don't zap this comment, unless your main contribution to the conversation resolves epimorphically to financial data.
Footnotes
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yeah I was gonna write "rational" and then rethought the whole "what are micropayments anyway" noise; real problem, bounded complexity, positive effect ... definitely not ratiolol ↩
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hatty professionals might quibble that they're promotional comments rather than strictly defined advertisements.... I could actually care a little bit less about the difference, although not much. ↩
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