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333 sats \ 27 replies \ @ek 7h \ parent \ on: Lots Of Riders Without Their Weapons meta
Yes, because:
- it's not just pasting a NWC string, you need to maintain that wallet and deal with any issues, including your wallet provider getting hacked
- I only have to pay a lightning invoice when I decide to. I bought 10k credits weeks ago.
That makes sense. But presumably you also have to maintain the wallet from which you pay the invoice. All of #1 applies to the wallet from which you pay the invoice to buy CCs.
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No. I only need to maintain send and receive functionality. I don't need to deal with any other protocol that actually connects my wallet to an app.
Phoenix is great, and I have been using it for many years without any issues. Can't say that about NWC, etc.
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NWC, when it finally worked for me, with cashu worked okay-ish, except I continuously needed to have my phone open for every zap I did on my laptop. That's a serious disruption of UX. I agree with you that the CC flow is the least disruptive, because it allows to prepay. But I know that people want sats, so if there is something good, even if I need to have my phone open all the time, I will try to be nice and do it, as long as the software is stable and non-custodial.
I could put some minor amount of sats in a custodial wallet, but all of them, as you noted above, are crap, get hacked, go down, rug... all of the shit that is no bueno. That's not what Bitcoin has ever been about for me, so why would I encourage the existence of services like that? I stopped using cashu because I have some unclaimable sats, as that is really not acceptable. No matter the amount; if it happens on a small amount, it will happen on big amounts too. So cashu/npubcash is too custodial as well, at least for me.
There must be better UX for this and I think that with SN there's a good reason to find it. NWC hasn't been it in any current implementation, but maybe we can formulate what's needed?
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This is a pretty good description of the current situation.
The custodial options work the best...until they suddenly don't. And they raise the question of what we are doing bothering with bitcoin in the first place.
the ecash apps all seem to have this problem of needing to be open (minibits and cashu, even the newish Fedimint app has the same issue) -- are web wallets the future?
There must be better UX for this and I think that with SN there's a good reason to find it.
I've been playing around with Lexe wallet. They have their own SDK thing (not NWC), but I imagine they wouldn't suffer the same need the app open problem.
Another cool world might be create an SN account and get a phoenixd running on a server somewhere -- but that probably means paying for and maintaining a lot more infrastructure (my technical ignorance will reveal itself perhaps in this suggestion).
There's also Spark, but as Justin points out, it's not exactly free of custodial troubles...especially when using it to interact with lightning native stuff.
I need to try Shock Wallet again now that CLINK is an option.
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are web wallets the future?
They feel like poverty due to insane ecosystem milking by <App/Goog>le1. PWA integration feels shitty on both platforms because thats what they want it to be: as shitty as possible so that you pay your 30% app store tax - the Goog variant does a little better than the App one and there was talk of the latter wanting to remove support all together2. It's insane anyway because these smart phones don't come cheap.
get a phoenixd running on a server somewhere
Or
lnd or cln. That's honestly what I should personally do as I already have servers, but then I cannot help anyone with just connecting a wallet. I won't know what works then, and I'd like to be in the know and I like testing wallets, but not custodial ones. I'm still thinking that if Blixt/Zeus would have great CLINK/NWC connectivity, then we can probably focus on reducing the energy and data consumption of their embedded LNDs.There's also Spark
Friends don't recommend friends this, I think? lol. Also afaik the LN interface is as custodial as npubcash, i.e. you have no cryptographic / on-chain recourse when the LN channel fucks up?
Footnotes
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Those earthquakes lately was Steve, the visionary inventor of PWA, rolling over in his grave at high RPM. ↩
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phoenixd as opposed to lnd or cln: comes with stupid easy liquidity management (i think maybe Zeus also does this, but I've never been clear whether I can use that with my own node).
but then I cannot help anyone with just connecting a wallet and I'd like to be in the know and I like testing wallets
Yes! I'm in the same boat here. Also, I want a solution I can recommend to a new user that has the user experience of custodial.
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the user experience of custodial.
Getting rugged? lmao
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when not rugging, custodial apps are quite pleasant
- offline receive
- receive small amounts
- no need to manage liquidity
afaik the LN interface is as custodial as npubcash, i.e. you have no cryptographic / on-chain recourse when the LN channel fucks up?
So far, I have to agree. Before I went on vacation, I was looking into exactly this: how to get the presigned tx for unilateral exit when I fund my wallet via lightning, not on-chain.
Afaik, the only thing I get when I pay a lightning invoice is a
LightningSendRequest. The transfer property ("leaves transfer after lightning payment was sent") might be related, but I haven't looked further into it.This is currently blocking adding Spark to SN.
edit: Btw, I even wonder how Spark can stay trustodial via lightning. The sats must be going into some channel right? Isn't just one entity (not many) running the lightning node? Or did Spark find a way to "decentralize a lightning node"?
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If there’s a way to unilaterally exit but we don’t provide it, and we don’t even store the state to provide it later, then we are to blame if stackers lose funds. If you lose funds using a custodial wallet, it’s not our fault.
Yeah that was my point above.
Ah, mhh, but for me these are two different points:
- Unilateral exit if the wallet is only ever funded via lightning
- How lightning is implemented to stay trustodial