Square terminals to allow pay in $, receive in btc tomorrow \ stacker news ~bitcoin

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Square terminals to allow pay in $, receive in btc tomorrow x.com/milessuter/status/1988729913260831023

632 sats \ 27 comments \ @Scoresby 13 Nov bitcoin

I'm still thinking through whether this Square stuff is as exciting as it feels, but I will admit I'm excited.

196 sats \ 9 replies \ @elvismercury 13 Nov

I have complex thoughts that I have yet to fully articulate.

One I can articulate is that it's interesting that anyone who does this just ignores the capital gains reporting issue. This is clever, I think - the old strategy of turning everyone into "criminals" means they can't possibly persecute them all, which could set precedent for the de minimus exemption we've all heard about.

Of course, this depends on anyone actually using this option, which they will not, at any kind of scale, for years. But zero to one is hardest. It's the beginning of a real grounding for btc, which is exciting even in theory.

38 sats \ 1 reply \ @Solomonsatoshi 13 Nov

The fiat debt slavery bankers cartel owns the US government. Has for many decades. This will be stomped on before it gets any scale.

Remember Elon Musk offering to sell his Teslas for sats?- that got shut down very swiftly.

The fiat debt slavery bankers own the US government...and most other governments for that matter.

Good on Square for at least trying to get this up and running- but I believe it will be shut down if before it can truly give people freedom of choice that might threaten the fiat cartel.

200 sats \ 0 replies \ @fiatbad 18h

100%

This is exactly why I push so hard for a real revolution from the Bitcoin community.

Everyone keeps saying "it will happen eventually. We're so early." But I call bullshit on that. The fiat debt slavery cartel will always take steps to prevent it from happening. Thus, it will never happen until enough Bitcoiners stand on their ideals, refuse to use fiat, and start using Bitcoin as money instead of just larping about it.

If we don't push back with some actual forcefulness, this isn't going to happen naturally because there is a powerful enemy working against it.

0 sats \ 6 replies \ @Scroogey 22h

anyone who does this just ignores the capital gains reporting issue

You mean the merchant accepting bitcoin, right?

The customer paying in fiat surely has no reporting to do? Why would they?

0 sats \ 5 replies \ @anon 20h

e merchant accepting bitcoin, right? The customer paying in fiat surely has no reporting to do? Why would th

No, the customer has to report a sale of BTC to USD.

0 sats \ 4 replies \ @Scroogey 20h

But the customer is paying in USD in the screenshots...

108 sats \ 3 replies \ @fiatbad 18h

You guys are talking past each other.

The merchant can choose to convert a portion of their fiat sales into Bitcoin. In this case, the customer doesn't need to worry about capital gains taxes. The merchant only reports a tax event if they ever buy dollars with those Sats. (they literally tax you for buying their currrency, WTF?!)

Then there is the case where someone pays with Bitcoin, and the merchant chooses to have it all converted to fiat. This is where the customer is supposed to report the "sale" to USD. Although, I could see how this could also be considered a merchant sale of Bitcoin as the transaction has already happened.

What if it's a purely Bitcoin to Bitcoin transaction? The government would see this as "barter", probably. I dunno, maybe someone can answer?

Responding to you here caused me to realize how little I know about this. I thought it was pretty straight forward, but the way Square is doing this brings up a bunch of new tax questions......

77 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 16h

The key part (or at least, the part I'm interested in) has nothing to do w/ what the merchant does, and pertains only to the user's gains (or loss, possibly) of btc's fiat value, which is what the govt requires reporting on for tax purposes.

Until your comment, I hadn't even considered the additional headache that the merchant would get if they kept whatever btc they received in these sales -- imagine that accounting nightmare, where every candy bar's worth of sats needs to be tracked for gain / loss! But since all this is automated by Square, maybe it's less bad than it seems, e.g., it's all aggregated.

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Scroogey 17h

Paying for goods or services with Bitcoin is a taxable event already. Doesn't matter if the recipient (the merchant) keeps the Bitcoin or sells them.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @elvismercury 16h

That's true; the interesting issue here is wrt what sort of taxable event it is, and for who.

102 sats \ 4 replies \ @Fenix 13 Nov

Why is this so special if bitcoin and ln is purely and work simply like that? Is it a hype about Jack project? Doesn’t make any sense for me.

105 sats \ 3 replies \ @Scoresby OP 13 Nov

I want to be able to spend sats everywhere. Then I don't have to convert to fiat to do things. If lots of people accept sats in trade for real goods, it becomes much more likely that all the kyc shit falls apart. The coffee shop isn't going to kyc me.

0 sats \ 2 replies \ @Fenix 13 Nov

Wallets with POS already do this, is it not the same? I’m seeing this like a good thing because doesn’t came with any bs “solution to fix” bitcoin.

129 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 13 Nov

There aren't 4 million merchant users of any wallet with POS.

Square is in place in real businesses. That has a big value, IMO.

21 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 23h

Is about creating an instant flow from fiat to bitcoin. That is big.

102 sats \ 4 replies \ @SimpleStacker 13 Nov

How do they determine the exchange rate and what fees do they charge for the conversion service?

I imagine there is a lot of room for them to skim off the transaction.

107 sats \ 0 replies \ @spiderman 13 Nov

If they are saving card payment processing fees, that should balance off the conversion fee. Btc is already one of the most liquid assets in the developed world (judging by volume and bid-ask spreads), even more liquid than most traded commodities and currencies (outside major pairs).

So they should be able to pass some of that savings from credit card companies to the consumer. And as more merchants adopt, buy, sell, convert, the liquidity pool gets bigger further reducing the bid ask spread. That is how adoption spreads.

Eventually, BTC will be so liquid that it becomes the denominator, not numerator.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @DarthCoin 23h

Doesn't matter anymore, important is that the flow is going to bitcoin and not the way around.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @Scoresby OP 13 Nov

Yeah, I'm sure that plays a role.

0 sats \ 0 replies \ @SimpleStacker 13 Nov

Which I'm actually semi ok with, as long as it's not abusively high. They should be able to earn a bit of return for promoting bitcoin adoption

107 sats \ 0 replies \ @spiderman 13 Nov

In my opinion, one of the biggest hurdles to greater adoption is the lack of on ramp or off ramp options.

Any new seemless on or off ramp experience will make more people aware of it, easier to hold, easier to liquidate. When easier to liquidate people will hold longer as they think they can convert it anytime in the future instead of a risky asset that you need to get rid of now.

Easier to liquidate will also mean more sellers will be willing to hold for a while rather than instant liquidation.

All these will also make the IBIT buyers rethink their strategy (pun intended) as they see others are using btc as money but their btc (if they have any) is locked in a portfolio account.

In other words all these mean another good step towards BTC slowly gaining acceptance as a parallel money (rather than a high beta nasdaq). It will be particularly popular with bitcoiner visitors to the US (or other international travellers) who will not have to worry about buying foreign currencies and dealing with alien looking papers.

107 sats \ 2 replies \ @OT 13 Nov

Do I understand this correct.

Let's say I'm a merchant, I can turn on EVERY payment received from fiat into sats?

5 sats \ 1 reply \ @spiderman 13 Nov

Or the other way round.

I hope there are some options to do a mixture as well. Merchants need fiat to pay their bills, so they cannot afford to convert 100%, but depending on their cash flow and appetite, if they keep a few percent of their revenue in BTC that will signal a massive adoption too.

5 sats \ 0 replies \ @OT 13 Nov

I saw that merchants can keep whatever percentage they want in Bitcoin.

Merchants need fiat to pay their bills, so they cannot afford to convert 100%, but depending on their cash flow and appetite

Not if they can pay their bills in bitcoin.

104 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 13 Nov

Me too looking for a square merchant now!

0 sats \ 1 reply \ @Solomonsatoshi 13 Nov

Is Square and this Bitcoin payment option only available in the US?

26 sats \ 0 replies \ @SwapMarket 23h

Their website lists several regions, so I assume as a POS it can be installed globally. But Bitcoin option is only mentioned for the US.