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Hasn't worked yet. We saw the USSR.
76 sats \ 9 replies \ @kepford 19h
Have my own theories about why that didn't work.
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I think Europe is pretty entrenched in our minds as a peer culture. It might seem less like it's happening to some alien culture.
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 6h
True, as it should be. We have a lot to thank them for and we stopped teaching positively about Western Civilization when I was growing up. I'm still unlearning non-sense I was taught.
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What are they?
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76 sats \ 5 replies \ @kepford 18h
The short version. The victors (US) didn't believe that socialism was the primary reason the Soviet Union failed. They believe it was the USA. They don't actually believe socialism is completely rotten.
I say this because I have seen very little actual mainstream discussion of the failures of socialism. It was mostly about the US spending them into the ground. Not the failures of central planning. Many in government are socialists they just don't admit it.
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They did spend a decent amount of time focusing on some of the incentive issues in socialism: i.e. "Who will take out the trash?" or "Why work harder if you don't get paid more?".
Those are worth noting, but they miss the fundamental problem of central planning.
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42 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 6h
Indeed. One thing I forgot to mention was that when I realized that even in a society with moral men at the top, if it were centrally planned people would be driven into poverty because of the inability to 'know", it killed any illusion of the tempting idea of socialism.
Socialism sounds good to many people. Its important to know why before you talk to them about it.
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I think the incentive arguments are actually on the weaker side because they imply that everyone is financially motivated, and thus reinforces the socialist's belief that capitalists are just greedy pigs, and it also reinforces their belief that moral re-education is necessary.
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I agree. I just mean that they're worth noting because they aren't incorrect.
From a theory standpoint, the knowledge problems are far more fundamental.
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111 sats \ 0 replies \ @kepford 6h
The deeper problem is that most people are not convinced through intellectual arguments. Most people just want to fit in. Safety is one of the primary things and being in the in-group is a massive thing. So when you have the education and entertainment systems constantly being critical of capitalism it has the side effect we see today.
I think the intellectual arguments need to be made because you need to actual leaders in culture to be informed. Then you have different appeals to work for different people. What I was referring to as the mistakes are primarily for those with open minds and curiosity.
Once I read "Economics in One Lesson" and even "Atlas Shrugged" in the early 2000s I started to realize that even if everyone is greedy you are better off with a free market system. The idea that central planning or any system would remove greed is so foolish it should embarrass people. When you understand that the incentives in free trade lead to better outcomes on the macro that filter down to the lowest in society vs. the opposite effect in socialism you begin to see the foolishness of socialism.
Then when you start to understand the pricing system and how it works based on the desires and actions of an entire economy. How spontaneously the market can solve problems that arise it almost becomes magical. Its like discovering to goose that lays the golden egg. And no one appreciates it.
I remember Tom Woods saying many times that people assume wealth. Few ask, how was this wealth created? How did man arise from poverty. We are born naked. Man is not by default wealthy. Most socialist economies arise after some sort of other system which involved some level of free enterprise.
Then you start to ask all the moral questions about force and violence to force people to do things. Positive and negative rights. Incentives and disincentives. The knowledge problem. The second and third order effects. And how arrogant politicians must be to think they know what to do from the top. It all starts to become clearly absurd that anyone would have the hubris these men have.
Then you look at the history of societies that have tried socialism. Russia, East Germany, and even places like Sweden. Where they tried it for a while and it was a disaster. They still get referred to as socialist but they are a free economy with a massive welfare state (that seems to be failing slowly btw). Even small amounts of free enterprise in an economy help massively.
Capitalism does not fix everything but the absence of centralizing power to a few monopoly political figures removes a terrible incentive structure and functionally inferior model for society. I would rather live in an amoral free market than an amoral socialist one any day of the week. But a moral people (relatively) with freedom is always gonna be preferable to one with state monopoly over capital.
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