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Something we've been discussing for years is whether the rewards system is properly incentivizing behavior on Stacker News. It's not easy to evaluate, but there's a concept from experimental econ that might help us think about it.
Saliency is a property of incentive systems. A salient system is one that provides sufficient payoffs for people to put in the effort to figure out their optimal strategy.
This is a major point of tension in designing economic experiments, because increasing saliency usually means increasing the expense of the experiment. But, an experiment that doesn't have salient payoffs will fail to provide useful results because the participants don't bother trying to think about their strategies.

Not Salient

In one sense, the SN rewards are obviously not salient. Even those of us who have spent a lot of time thinking about the details of this system don't really try to optimize our rewards.
Every so often, someone successfully games the rewards system by zapping small amounts to what will become top posts very quickly. The rarity of these occurrences is proof that the system is not salient. It takes a lot of effort to net an extra few thousand sats and there are easier ways to get a few thousand sats.
It's also not a bad thing that the rewards aren't salient, because they don't precisely incentivize desired behaviors. As I've previously written about, Stacker News rewards are a Keynesian Beauty Contest.

Vaguely Salient

@k00b has talked about wanting the rewards system to essentially implement the heuristic of "MOAR rewards for doing good stuff" and I think that's largely been a success.
People do produce higher quality content here than on most free-to-post platforms, comments tend to be both more numerous (relative to user count) and more thoughtful, and people zap much more than they do on nostr.
Thousands of sats are sufficient incentive to zap good content and be more thoughtful when making posts and comments.
This is the sweet spot, where the rewards are large enough to incentivize adopting a pro-social heuristic but not so large as to incentivize figuring out the antisocial optimum.
138 sats \ 33 replies \ @grayruby 16h
Agree regarding the "sweet spot". I do wonder how this scales though. Does 10x users mean more potential for sats and thus incentivizes optimization or does balance persist because there are more users, content etc.
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When 10x users?
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122 sats \ 22 replies \ @grayruby 15h
SN may never 10x users. It's may always remain niche but who knows there could be a tipping point along the way and wave of people join. It is hard to predict.
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Will there ever be a replacement for Reddit?
If so, why wouldn't it be Stacker News?
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I'm not a fan of Reddit. But I wanna break the myth so....It's a far fetched lie that SN will ever replace reddit. However the truth is that It'll or it has already successfully replaced r/Bitcoin.
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It might be far-fetched but also platforms are much less permanent than we imagine them to be.
There are a lot of people who love the Reddit format but hate how Reddit is managed. Stacker News is for all of them and they just have to figure that out.
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BTW There are also people who hate how SN is managed.
I actually don't wanna compare SN to any other platforms. It's unique.
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We can acknowledge that SN is it's own thing without pretending it isn't more like some things than others.
It's a much more natural fit for Reddit refugees than TikTok refugees.
who hates how SN is managed?
Hahahaha! Exactly hashtag never
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You're right but nobody agrees with you.
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Very well summarized, fren
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I think that will largely depend on how it translates to boosts/donations. When the rewards pot is in the hundreds of thousands, there's a lot to be gained from that top spot (especially if bitcoin has appreciated considerably).
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If Bitcoin price appreciates 10x from now, do you think we'll still see more boosts in 100ks range?
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Not necessarily, but we might see more total boost volume.
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"We might see" in fact we'll see but not scaling to today's time because for that we again need 10x active users at the least who should be ready to sacrifice 10x previous sats for posts and comments as well. What I want is SN needs to be real cheap in terms of 'pay to post'. People are not coming here to only post when they can earn a good amount elsewhere by posting and then buy Bitcoin with that money. I'm talking about many big Bitcoiners who are active on twitter all day long but won't comment or post here.
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42 sats \ 1 reply \ @grayruby 16h
True. That can be solved by more communism though. Haha
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This time I sort of agree.
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197 sats \ 1 reply \ @optimism 14h
Every time the reward pool is big due to boosts, I get bumped out of the daily top 5. So it's definitely being gamed and that's okay.
Spending that effort into learning a trade will make you the #1 reward on a big 100k sats pool per minute. So i think that it's kind of a waste to spend time on this. Unless it gives you a hardon. In that case, happy fapping.
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That's interesting
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I know that one guy can’t stop talking about his abs. Is this why?
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You expect me to get inside the head of a dog?
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You know who u are inside
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I wonder if you've ever thought of rewards as a negative externality tax / positive externality dividend. Tax negative externalities (in this case, taxing spam through sybil fees), and redistribute those proceeds in a way so as to subsidize positive externalities (good behavior on SN, producing and zapping good content)
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No, I hadn't thought of them that way, at least not in those terms. I suppose that is sort of how I was thinking about it, though.
The rewards pool has mostly come from donations, so it wasn't exactly balancing positive and negative externalities. There's also no particular reason those two things should balance.
Oof, you've wrinkled my brain a bit here.
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I mainly brought it up because I think in the long run, the idea would be that rewards would be sustained without donations. Also, the sybil fee of 30% can be considered quite high, but the justification would be "we're not greedy, this is a legitimate tax, and it goes back to the community"
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The way I thought about it is more like how Workit functions for their steps challenges. The participants all put some amount in the pot and then it gets divvied up based how well people perform. It's a commitment device to be better than you might otherwise be.
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Thank you for defining salient. I’m an idiot and you use smart words
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I'm just trying to bring some of our useful jargon to the masses
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The gaming of SN reward system has become a futile endeavour these days, albeit SN is also very deceptive in terms of who's gaming who and what. Friends zapping friends is one of such gaming I believe.
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this sounds like your assmilking is over, right?
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... the old drama of SN rewards...
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Sorry to stir this back up but apparently I do it every year on this day.
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Every so often, someone successfully games the rewards system by zapping small amounts to what will become top posts very quickly.
What happen when somebody downzap instead of zap?
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I don't think downzapping bad content is treated the same as zapping good content, but it probably should be.
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then how is treated zapping bad content ? What will happen if I downzap your post with 10k CCs?
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You'll put 10k CCs in the rewards, many of which I'll probably get because people will generally zap this post.
Since it scales logarithmically, your 10k downzap will be balanced out by just 4 stackers zapping 10 sats.
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42 sats \ 1 reply \ @jakoyoh629 15h
I think I read somewhere that at least part of the downzap goes to the territory owner.
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Yeah, I wasn't sure about that. I knew the portion that would normally go to the OP goes to the rewards.
That would mean k00b gets 2100 and the rewards gets 7900.
42 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 15h
hehe exactly because of that, long time ago I stop downzapping, "donating" to rewards and boost posts. Because the game is rigged and I do not want to feed assmilkers.
And that's why I always sustain:
SN must be a proof of work not proof of milking.
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I stop downzapping, "donating" to rewards and boost posts. Because the game is rigged and I do not want to feed assmilkers
That's a problem that I think would be solved by including the best downzappers in rewards payouts.
Well, back in the glorious old days in which I could occasionally receive 6000+ sats for just posting/commenting, I would say that the rewards were the major incentive. I remember that fateful day in which my zap soared as high as 328 sats.
These days, the rewards don’t bear much weight on my behaviour. My determination to keep the cowboy hat is my main motivation, though. 🤠
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