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I don't think that it matters, because the problem isn't actual decentralization, but an accusation of conspiracy. And that's impossible to defend against. All you can do is not be trapped into reacting to it in any way [1]
But I don't think that the "3rd fork" idea that has recently been re-popularized (e.g. #1223880) is such a bad idea; it can help lift some of the pressure and spotlight off of current Bitcoin Core contributors.
I have personally been in that situation - more than once - and I know very well that it truly sucks to have to let the punches land and not hit back in any way. It's also why I am an anon on SN and won't hesitate for a moment to burn and move on if I have to; I don't want to have to deal with that shit ever again on any other project than past ones I still, some days grudgingly, contribute to. ↩
Yeah, don't get me wrong, I am in favour of a future where different clients are in a mad max like standoff, constantly trying to out compete each other, optimising for different use cases and targetting different audiences. It's great to see people seriously thinking about this.
Yes! That would also be healthier than just all the pressure being on one repo.
The current core devs have only been there since about 2021 correct?
What are they responsible for in that time from the user’s perspective?
Inscriptions, forcing filter changes and now a 20% rebellion from the repo?
What is the track record that ya’ll are so eager to defend?
The current core devs have only been there since about 2021 correct?
Of those that have significantly contributed, they've mostly been around far longer than that.
What are they responsible for in that time from the user’s perspective?
It is very sad to me how the people who have fought tooth and nail to make bitcoin sound money, and who continue to do so, have people like you casually throwing around nonsense.
Your idea of what's going on amongst bitcoin devs is completely at odds with reality. That's what happens when you make pronouncements based something you read on social media. And then the devs waste their time refuting people like you one by one instead of actually improving bitcoin.
If you want to know who is attacking bitcoin, it's useful idiots like yourself. You've been successfully weaponised into an attack against bitcoin devs' reputation.
If you want to know who is attacking bitcoin, it's useful idiots like yourself. You've been successfully weaponised into an attack against bitcoin devs' reputation.
💯
What is the benefit to Bitcoin for having devs with “good reputation”?
That is a risk factor which can only increase trust and decrease the amount of people verifying the software.
That is a risk factor which can only increase trust and decrease the amount of people verifying the software.
Unless you become a bitcoin dev yourself (i.e. write code, learn cryptography and the nuances of how bitcoin works) then you are trusting the devs. And even then, not everyone has the brain to understand that stuff - it is crazy complex.
So most people have no choice but to trust the communications of the general dev community. They cannot verify things for themselves.
Is this a risk to bitcoin? Yes. The masses can be convinced of some bullshit about bitcoin and people associated with it - just like what happens in politics. The same strategies used to manipulate political opinion can and are being used to manipulate people's view of what's happening with bitcoin.
In bitcoin's case, seems like it only takes one well-known dev to push a load of propaganda to cause a significant portion of bitcoiners to lose the plot.
The current core devs have only been there since about 2021 correct?
No, many from the the 2011-2013 era still remain and are among the most active contributors. glozow is the newest contributor among the maintainers, but the rest have been working on core about a decade plus now and have seen through major changes to core in that time period. There has not been a big generational shift, it is a very gradual process.
Here is where you can see maintainers of Core.
I’m asking you specifically about the chain code labs employees.
They all are paid by the same company, they work from the same office.
You have zero concerns about that?
I don't think that it matters, because the problem isn't actual decentralization, but an accusation of conspiracy. And that's impossible to defend against
The impression I'm starting to get is that many bitcoiners got into it precisely because they're conspiratorially minded, not because of sound evaluation.
You can see this bias towards conspiracy across bitcoiners in big and small ways. Obviously you have Kratter's ranting about chem trails and mental telepathy, but it's evident in smaller ways such as people's reaction to the Kirk assassination.
I am a little conspiratorially minded myself. And there can be advantages to it. But it is a tendency that I recognise in myself and temper with various strategies.
It seems some percentage of bitcoiners don't have this self reflection or the ability to understand the technical big picture.
I imagine eventually this weakness will be exploited and they'll sell their coins cheaply - similar to how the bcashers lost their stacks.
The impression I'm starting to get is that many bitcoiners got into it precisely because they're conspiratorially minded, not because of sound evaluation.
this so much, see #1016014
The impression I'm starting to get is that many bitcoiners got into it precisely because they're conspiratorially minded, not because of sound evaluation.
It's always been a significant subset that perhaps I too am part of myself (though I'd totes stroke ego and add: mildly), and we've seen high agency people (nearly/completely) lose it over the years as further evidence to this.
I imagine eventually this weakness will be exploited
The red-teamer in me says it's extremely likely that it already is being exploited under the radar, and the theorist-red-teamer in me says that this entire drama is an exploit.
I'll probably come back to this later because lots to unpack, but I have a coding gig delivery to do today
How is an “accusation of conspiracy” a problem if it isn’t true?
Are you saying it’s a problem that all users in Bitcoin don’t agree about policy?
In my perception Bitcoin Core is the most decentralized it has ever been since the Gavin days.