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100 sats \ 5 replies \ @roy 7h \ parent \ on: Nodeless on Spark | Waitlist is now open ⚡️ bitcoin
- LOL, if Lightning is your definition of L2, yes, ofc everything else is "fake".
- If a prior owner of a Spark leaf broadcasts a branch, yes, the owner needs to publish theirs (or delegate it to a watchtower). It's not different than Lightning in that regard.
- SO acts as a watchtower, and you can have a watchtower outside of the SE.
- What you call marketing, is using simple terms to explain the tech. Read our documentation, my articles, etc. We're trying to be as accurate as possible. "Trustodial" in that regard isn't intuitive. It's actually the exact opposite from what the solution trying to do. I, btw, like the differentiation between non-custodial (can be trustodial) and self-custodial (self sufficient), but you need to keep in mind these are all regulatory terms.
They literally call it Spark/LightSpark to affinity-scam as Lightning, and use SWAPS in/out, because Lightning is the standard.
So we've established it doesn't solve live-ness any better than Lightning, actually worse, since there's no justice disincentive.
We've also established it doesn't do anything for users with amounts too small to defend themselves or get a Lightning channel.
It's not even open network protocol in the sense that users still need Lightning to interop across disparate coordinators. In that sense, it's not even Bitcoin.. at best it's shroedinger's bitcoin.
So what does it actually do? Creates swap fees for the coordinator and puts unsophisticated users in a position that's no better than if they just went the SQL route.
Marketing is a generous term on my part, it's really affinity scamming. From the ground up it has tried to position itself as Lightning despite being just another centralized exchange.
I don't accept the regulatory justification, scamming the regulator is laudable but affinity scamming the user is not.
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Live-ness if someone is trying to cheat you mean. But, you can receive payments when you're offline...
You really don't need me to explain the UX advantages of not using channels, right?
You lost me with "just another centralized exchange"... If want to have a technical discussion, let's have one, but shouting "scam" on everything that isn't using a channel, comparing it to a centralized exchange is just nonsense.
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you can receive payments when you're offline
The only way that can be done is on the chain with an output assigning a key, anything above the chain requires some sort of sweep to make it trustless. Otherwise, its just delay tolerant.
I've got plenty on musings on the silliness that happens because people refuse to accept the reality that the internet doesn't work offline, that's why there are servers, or nodes in this case... nodeless = someone elses node.
UX advantages of not using channels
I already acknowledged your position in responding to the demands of who this caters to, that's a separate argument from whether or not this is comparable to lightning and whether or not it should be positioned as if it was.
You also told me a long time ago to focus on one thing, I think after I had been spending time on Video and away from the our OG wallet...
Now imagine if we both took your advice and neither got distracted by things other than the best Lightning UX possible, and just stayed hyper-focused on localizing trust and better automation that ensures users never have to be intimate with their channel management. No blockstream clouds or shitswaps, no Sparkswaps, no Arkswaps (I presume Ark is next on body-trail of nodeless wallets?), and no video hosting while running a node still sucked.
There's still plenty of ground to make-up.
centralized exchange
Does it or does it not have to use a centralize exchange to act as a Lightning wallet? Are the minscule balances of the users this caters to any different than those on a custodial exchange?
shouting "scam"
You dissented when I called it marketing, either way it is what it is... LightSpark... ffs, if not a scammer what other kind of asshole came up with that name in this context?
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I think I'm following my own advice, I just allow myself to use the best tools for the job and acknowledging there's no one size fits all when it comes to last mile solutions.
Lightspark started a Lightning SaaS, hence the name. Spark evolved internally, and it's a play on the company's name.
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I just allow myself to use the best tools for the job and acknowledging there's no one size fits all when it comes to last mile solutions.
Fair enough, when the best tool is ready for broader distribution you'll be the first to know... your channel is a perfect match for Lightning.Pub end-users, so long as I get the power users in their lives ready to serve them... then it'll be easy to obviate whatever the fake L2 du-jour happens to be that day.
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