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Nodeless on Spark | Waitlist is now open ⚡️breez.technology/spark/
379 sats \ 23 comments \ @_ds 9h bitcoin
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21 sats \ 21 replies \ @DarthCoin 9h
geezas fucking christ! What a mother of bullshit is this?
Spark is the fucking enemy of Bitcoin! People have no idea what they are doing!
https://unlimitedhangout.com/2024/10/investigative-series/the-chain-of-command-how-facebooks-libra-bank-regulators-and-paypal-built-a-new-world-currency/
Spark network is the trojan horse for all Bitcoin network. People do not realize how easy is to manipulate and catch most of the users into their "private KYC" network, like Coinbase and then mapping all its users..... THIS IS A FUCKING NIGHTMARE!
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278 sats \ 20 replies \ @mtk4000 8h
That article is way too long. Is there a succinct explanation of why I should distrust Spark?
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189 sats \ 12 replies \ @justin_shocknet 8h
Everything they say is a lie, hows that?
"Nodeless" is marketing scam to avoid calling it Trustodial.
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197 sats \ 9 replies \ @roy 3h
Trustodial is the worst term ever to describe a trust minimized solution. Spark is better than Liquid. It's Bitcoin and it has unilateral exit.
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348 sats \ 8 replies \ @justin_shocknet 3h
It's the perfect term because it's accurate. These solutions are not comparable to self-custody lightning and it's wrong to position them in a similar light.
Can make the case that it's better than straight SQL in that there's liability accounting, but that's a distinction without a difference.
Spark is better than Liquid
Maybe, maybe not, I'm not comparing fake-L2 to fake-L2
it has unilateral exit
That's been debunked several different ways, state chains are inherently prone to collusion... not withstanding the fact anyone using this stuff is doing so without live-ness protection or with amounts too small to afford a lightning channel in the first place... if a user can be online to defend a claim AND afford a UTXO then just use real Lightning.
At least with a watchtower you can cloudify away the online-ness part.
I know where you're coming form with regards to product demands, and nothing but respect for you, your defense of and vision for real Lightning over the years, the original LND Breeze... and more... but let's not pretend these fake L2's are anything but crypto-theater.
If Trustodial is what your users want, just embrace that.
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100 sats \ 7 replies \ @roy 2h
  1. Define L2, then explain why it's "fake".
  2. "Debunked": by who? how? The too small amount is also an issue if you want to close a Lightning channel. Same for live-ness. You can have a watchtower with spark as well. Not to mention the SO are inherently acting as watchtowers.
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100 sats \ 6 replies \ @justin_shocknet 2h
Lightning is the only L2, completely peer to peer reusable transactions without a coordinator/operator. To the extent there can ever be another L2 it won't involve a central coordinator... and it certainly won't require a swap service to market itself as a Lightning wallet.
Literally any article about state chains talks about the collusion trade-off regarding prior key-holders.
SO is more coordinator than watchtower, and afaik there's no justice tx equivalent to create a disincentive. Spark or its quasi-federated partners do not solve liveness like shroedinger's watchtower keeping Lightning honest.
Small amounts = trustodial no matter what, so it's pointless to call fake L2's an improvement over Lightning because they suffer the same emergent properties of working with the chain as Lightning would.
You're one of the greats in Lightning Roy, I don't believe that you believe any of this equivalency marketing... lest we just forget Lightning ever existed and relegate payments to the centrally coordinated network du-jour.
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100 sats \ 5 replies \ @roy 2h
  1. LOL, if Lightning is your definition of L2, yes, ofc everything else is "fake".
  2. ​If a prior owner of a Spark leaf broadcasts a branch, yes, the owner needs to publish theirs (or delegate it to a watchtower). It's not different than Lightning in that regard.
  3. SO acts as a watchtower, and you can have a watchtower outside of the SE.
  4. What you call marketing, is using simple terms to explain the tech. Read our documentation, my articles, etc. We're trying to be as accurate as possible. "Trustodial" in that regard isn't intuitive. It's actually the exact opposite from what the solution trying to do. I, btw, like the differentiation between non-custodial (can be trustodial) and self-custodial (self sufficient), but you need to keep in mind these are all regulatory terms.
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147 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 8h
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @justin_shocknet 8h
bwahahaah
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49 sats \ 5 replies \ @DarthCoin 8h
In simple terms TLDR: they will get inside of every single Bitcoin LN service and will map every single user, like Coinbase is doing. Then is very easy to catch all into a CBDC like system that nobody can get out. BOYCOTT LIGHTSPARK AND ALL AFFILIATED SERVICES AS MUCH AS YOU CAN! YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED.
btw, take your time and read that article... or die as any ignorant normie.
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100 sats \ 4 replies \ @roy 3h
Your screenshot is of the Lightspark service, not Spark. You can go ahead and FUD, but at least try harder.
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0 sats \ 3 replies \ @DarthCoin 3h
Is not FUD. Is just a warning about the direction where is going all this crap with spark. People have to know who is behind all this Spark and their intentions.
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100 sats \ 2 replies \ @roy 3h
But what you posted is unrelated to Spark...
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100 sats \ 1 reply \ @DarthCoin 2h
It is very well related. Yes, I know are not the same thing. Spark is an open source protocol (https://github.com/buildonspark/spark) and Lightspark is their own LN product that works like a separate network and is "plugged" into BTC LN.
But both are coming from the same evil people and with the same intentions: using BTC network to create a more controlled paypal-coin (as described in this whole long investigative article).
Maybe they can fool some new users, but not the old bitcoiners. As Justin said, we respect you for all you've done with Breez and LND, but at least don't try to fool more people and just say what is it with this Spark. We don't care what people want to build with it (stablecoins, paypailcoins, whatever bullshit), but at least to be honest and say from the beginning that is NOT about Bitcoin itself.
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55 sats \ 0 replies \ @roy 2h
What you did here is the definition of FUD. You're a technical person, judge the technical solution. I'm a Bitcoiner. I think Spark is technically a step forward. I don't care who invented it.
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17 sats \ 0 replies \ @BlokchainB 1h
Great thread between Roy and shock
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0 sats \ 0 replies \ @nitter 9h
https://xcancel.com/Breez_Tech/status/1965417591222272352
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