pull down to refresh
0 sats \ 9 replies \ @m0wer 9h \ on: Locked 1 BTC until 2030 bitcoin
omg... why...
You could have just sent it to a timelock script address that only you control and use it for a fidelity bond in joinmarket. For free coinjoins and real Bitcoin yield... And in cold storage...
Instead you chose to give it away...
reply
You can charge a fee for others using your UTXOs to coinjoin with. Makers with large fidelity bonds (in size and lock time) get chosen more often. Being ablento make 0.01% of the coinjoin size multiple times a day. It's hard to tell, but I estimate that the largest bonds can make over 2% yearly yield in their total locked+available Bitcoin.
Here is an instance of the orderbook where you can see the bond values and fees: https://joinmarket.sgn.space/
reply
reply
No. I'm saying to use a timelocked address instead for the goal of locking some coin until date X. That timlocked address can be controlled by a hardware wallet.
If someone were to do that, they could at the same time profit from using those locked coins in cold storage as a fidelity bond to get free coinjoins and earn fees as makers in JoinMarket. It's only those other coins that are “at risk” from being on a hot wallet.
But even the risk of having them in a “hot wallet” is orders of magnitude smaller than giving them away to some company and hoping to get them back at some point.
reply
Fair point on timelocked addresses, but a quick reality check:
A timelock (CLTV/CSV) only enforces time, you can’t do “unlock when price > X” in Bitcoin script without introducing an external oracle (e.g., via DLCs). That brings liveness/trust assumptions, if the oracle is down, wrong, or censored, you may be stuck until a fallback (if any) activates. And in @chebibu’s case the price condition seems central: not everyone wants to die with their BTC unspent, and many have a target price at which they’d sell. That’s exactly the limitation, pure timelocks can’t encode market-driven conditions natively, you either accept oracle risk/complexity or choose a different strategy.
Even if you have the skills to build a safe timelocked address, self-custody introduces different risks: mis-setting the lock time (height vs. timestamp), wallet/tooling quirks, the seed being stolen physically or, if you use a passphrase, forgotten passwords (both of which have happened to people I personally know), device failure, etc. It’s not plug-and-play and definitely not suited to people who haven’t done it before.
On JoinMarket: yes, the fidelity-bonded coins can stay locked/cold, but the maker coins live in a hot wallet. Those are the funds exposed to operational and malware risk. Yield isn’t guaranteed and may not compensate for that risk for everyone.
We’re a new service and haven’t earned your trust or reputation yet. We’ve spent the last 2 years and countless BTC building and hardening this, but we know trust is earned over time. We also believe a large share of the 8B people in the world won’t, or can’t, self-custody at scale for many reasons (operational complexity, recovery challenges, and hard limits like block space). Our aim is to responsibly serve that segment while still respecting and supporting advanced self-custody users.
reply
I think some of the pushback you are getting here is that
timelock generally implies that it is enforced by code, not something that can be reversed or changed by a human. As far as I can tell, the timelocks you use for piggy can be unlocked if piggy the company needs to unlock them.Perhaps it would be helpful if you described how the timelock is enforced: If you have a multisig somewhere with the user's bitcoin, how are the keys to this multisig "timelocked"? Is there an HSM server that signs the transactions and that cannot be altered by piggy? How do you guarantee the timelock?
If the timelock is only enforced by piggy's protocols (which can be changed) then perhaps timelock is not the right term here. (And also, I don't understand why I'd ask another person to hold my bitcoin just so I can't get at it for some amount of time...)
reply
You come here selling NFTs and “trust me bro”s. You are not “Bitcoin only”, you are a spammer, a scammer and shitcoiner. You will never earn the trust of Bitcoiners with such obvious faulty and scammy products.
Delete this persona if you want to try again. This kind of trash won’t fly on SN.
reply
We appreciate constructive criticism, the line between hate and love is thin. Unfortunately, this isn’t about you. And just a heads-up: what you’re doing isn’t activism (you may think it is), you’re just very angry, and that kind of anger hurts you. Sorry!
On the other hand, we’ve built a great product the Bitcoin community hasn’t seen in a long time. It just needs time to sink in, it’s new, and not everyone will get it right away. Good luck.
reply